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Speaker: All Been Said

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  • Julian Melville,

    Anybody else get a jolt when the words "New Zealand 2011" lit up at Stade de France by way of conclusion to Rugby World Cop 2007?

    You made it all the way to then? I was already off making the coffee shortly after half time and didn't come back. What a snoozer. The F1 final race in Brazil, on the other hand...

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 182 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    The confusion over Eden Park is only one aspect of the huge job that looms in ensuring that the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand is a success.

    As Brian Gaynor pointed out in his column in the Weekend Herald, there's is little demonstrable reason to have confidence in the NZRU and other parties in getting things right, particularly on the issue of business competence.

    He illustrates his misgivings by pointing out that an official website for the 2011 Rugby World Cup has yet to be established.

    Gaynor contrasts this with the 2010 Commonwealth Games in New Delhi and the 2012 London Olympic Games which both have extensive websites. The 2012 European football championship to be jointly hosted by Poland and Ukraine already have a website.

    And more damningly, he points out that the NZRU has almost no mention of the 2011 tournament on its website.

    So I thought I'd check it out.

    If you go to www.allblacks.com and www.nzrugby.co.nz and Google search the 2011 rugby world cup, what Gaynor says is essentially correct.

    Maybe the grey heads at NZRU aren't the most interweb savvy people around but you would think their communications team would know the value of staking an early presence on the net especially for an event that will be as significant as this one to the country?

    It is scandalous - not a massively critical one at this early stage but hardly confidence inspiring from a marketing point of view.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    A mayor with the votes of 0.019% of New Zealand's registered voters has thrown a spanner in the works

    I don't know how many registered voters there are in NZ, but Banks got 45,387 votes.

    That's over 1% of the total population of NZ.

    I think you might have forgotten to multiply by 100?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6157 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I don't know how many registered voters there are in NZ, but Banks got 45,387 votes.
    That's over 1% of the total population of NZ.
    I think you might have forgotten to multiply by 100?

    It was a holiday ...

    Fixed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18666 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I hate to defend Banks, but all he's doing is refusing to spend his voters money on Eden Park. And why shouldn't the voters of Auckland decide there are better things to spend their money on than subsidising the wealthy, corporate sponsored, NZRFU?

    Incidentally, I'm English. We lost a rugby game at the weekend. I'm at work functioning normally. I don't require grief counselling. I don't think the rules of rugby need rewriting.

    But then, we sent a bunch of rugby players and they lost. I guess it's different when you send
    gods and they still lose.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4413 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    But then, we sent a bunch of rugby players and they lost. I guess it's different when you send
    gods and they still lose.

    Yes we have quite a bit of humble pie to get through yet. I suppose England advanced much further than even their most optimistic supporters could have wished while we failed sooner than even our most pessimistic supporters feared.

    This editorial in the Press before the quarter final reminds us of how confident we were.

    I can't quite work out why I was so annoyed at Byron Kelleher on TV3's World Cup wrap up. Maybe he seemed to epitimise the show pony style over substance issue?

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    But then, we sent a bunch of rugby players and they lost. I guess it's different when you send "gods" and they still lose.

    Yes we have quite a bit of humble pie to get through yet

    Or you are experiencing what most New Zealanders felt about the game. Instant disappointment, perhaps a little anger, and then acceptance. The reason being perhaps that you're not a Northern Hemisphere sports reporter* (or are you? :) ).

    Many of the reports I read from "up north" recently trumpeted the British team's valour and bravery and gallantry and blahblahblah...

    Perhaps if you were in Britain surrounded by rugby fans the feeling might be different.

    *And of course SH reports ain't much better.

    I can't quite work out why I was so annoyed at Byron Kelleher on TV3's World Cup wrap up

    If you were like me it was because he was wearing his shirt unbuttoned quite a way with an over-sized bone carving while making excuses for why his team lost.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    BTW best quote i heard this weekend:
    As i walked into the pub to watch England (I put Britain above, my bad) play South Africa, the TV3 commentary team were still talking about New Zealand being knocked out. Andrew Mehrtens said "We probably weren't the best team in the competition"

    LOLZ!!!1!!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    If you were like me it was because he was wearing his shirt unbuttoned quite a way with an over-sized bone carving while making excuses for why his team lost.

    Ah yes, that was why! Also his hakas were always OTT.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Just in case we think we're the only ones in disarray, check this from a SA rugby mailing list a friend of mine is on:

    "The Springboks Last Hoorah"

    The game has left an empty aftertaste. The forward exchanges were ferocious enough but there is nothing much left to savour. It seems that many of us were disappointed that we sank back to the Poms level. The Boks were intrinsically a lot better than that. I say ''were'' advisedly because the team is no more. They are now just a memory of the last days of Springbok glory. A new era of second tier shame is about to begin. RIP Bokke"

    Someone else:

    I think in the back of everyone's minds they know this :-(

    How restrained has this list been? My friends and I went mad on the night after the final whistle, but even the next day and now Monday, it doesn't feel like it did in 1995, and that's entirely because of what we all suspect is going to happen. If the rumblings from government have any substance behind them, you're right, this might be the last of the Springboks. I don't know who is going to take over as coach but Jake would be mad to stay. The players know it, and that's why so many are getting out. Perhaps we're all just being too gloomy and sense will prevail, but I have my doubts."

    And my friend's comment:

    There's more, but the essence for months has been the politicians there are going to insist on a minimum of 10 black players in every future 'bok team regardless of merit. The SARugby list has had a slightly bitter view that the 'boks would win an essentially empty victory this weekend as the fight to select on merit finally comes to an end. Perhaps they are unduly pessimistic, but with Jake White's position formally advertised several weeks ago, it doesn't look good.

    Yikes.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18666 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    Re: Banks, Eden Park, etc.

    I'm no Banks supporter, but I'm also no Rugby-Head either, and him wanting to not put rate-payers money towards Eden Park is fine in my book....

    But, why did we find this out the day after he was elected?
    Surely, politicians seeking election should advertise their intended policies BEFORE the election?

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 789 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    Ah yes, that was why! Also his hakas were always OTT.

    Um, I think that's the whole point of a haka. You don't perform a posture dance with the intention of maintaining a sense of humility.

    I'm so glad that SA won. The thought of England mangling their way to victory was unbearable...

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 453 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Change the scoring system.
    Count only trys and kicks can be added on a count back system if its a draw like cnrs in hockey.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Change the scoring system.

    Agreed - games should be decided on tries, not penalties.

    Make penalties worth 20 points ... teams will stop cheating and the only way to win is tries!

    :-)

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2991 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    Um, I think that's the whole point of a haka. You don't perform a posture dance with the intention of maintaining a sense of humility.

    but the intention isn't to pronounce to the world "I AM AN OVER-DRAMATISING COCK", surely?

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn,

    I've often thought that much of the problem in terms of rugby 'watchability' is that the existing laws just aren't applied or are applied inconsistently (which is the nature of the beast I guess in a sport where referee subjectivity is so influential).

    If the offside law was actually constantly enforced, with the assistance of touch judges, there would be a lot more attacking play. Similarly, if the number of people flying off their feet into rucks was reduced, attacking teams would get quicker ball .. etc

    I'm not convinced the game is that broken, but game management is not keeping up with the increased size and speed of players (not blaming the refs here, I imagine its a hellish sport to referee).

    Rather than rush to try experimental law changes, why not use technology to enforce the laws we have a little better? And on the law changes, why is it just Tri-Nations trialling them, why not the Six Nations as well?

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Thomas,

    Perhaps not surprisingly, Brian Ashton says __"you cannot plan for a World Cup"__

    "Look at the last soccer World Cup – if I remember rightly Italy struggled in every group game yet went on to win the final. We lost a group game and went very close to winning the final on Saturday. France, who had a coach in place for eight years, got knocked out in the semis. New Zealand spent I don't know how much money yet were knocked out in the quarters. There's no blueprint at all.

    "I think at this moment in time, and I may change my mind on this, it's about what happens when you get to the tournament that counts. It's the group of players that you've got with you. It's not about what you've done during the previous two or three years, it's what you do for the seven weeks that you're there.

    i think he might be right to a certain extent. who would've said before the world cup that england would be in the final?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 315 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    But, why did we find this out the day after he was elected?
    Surely, politicians seeking election should advertise their intended policies BEFORE the election?

    But he did!

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4413 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Smart,

    I hate to say it guys but you are all a little bit right but have missed the key point. I am talking about the game not the politics.

    The All Blacks failing was that they thought they could win the world cup by playing the kind of rugby we all love. Fast attacking stuff with wingers scoring wonderful tries.
    The reality with the exception of 1987 the team winning the RWC has been defensively sound. Had the AB's continued to play the game in which they started the game kicking into the corners and playing the rugby in the opponents 22 they would have beaten France and England or Australia. South Africa was always a difficult task
    Unfortunately we picked a team of runners. Look at the mistake of leaving Weepu out for a couple of able running halfbacks that lacked his physical presence. Look at the amazing kick of Carter's in his own 22 to an open side winger. That signalled the start of the decline and the desire to run the ball from everywhere. I do not know if it was the game plan or the execution. I do know like the rest of NZ they got it wrong. So stop blaming refs and offside lines and start to think how we can win the next one. Look at how we need to still play great rugby but in the opponents half not at our end of the field.

    Oh and finally if Banks doesn’t want the RWC that is ok. Develop North Harbour Stadium. Which is probably what they should have done in the first place. He is only trying to get his own back for all the big guys who ran over him when he was in the 3rd form in his miserable secondary school wherever that was!!!!

    Since Nov 2006 • 71 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    First of all let me say I can't believe I'm going back to arguing the reasons for New Zealand's loss.

    Had the AB's continued to play the game in which they started the game kicking into the corners and playing the rugby in the opponents 22 they would have beaten France and England or Australia

    I'm not entirely convinced. In the quarters France were the team least likely to "steal" the ball in the ruck and maul and they lost 10% of their own scrums. Their line out was also rubbish. With that info I would recommend a running game with chip or grubber kicks.

    did I mention I'm free for any coaching role :)

    Oh and finally if Banks doesn’t want the RWC that is ok. Develop North Harbour Stadium. Which is probably what they should have done in the first place.

    Oh no! we are NOT getting back into this debate. If Eden Park doesn't get it it goes to next largest stadium: Lancaster Park. No more mucking about.

    Banks probably wants a big national debate so he can hear his name in the news a lot. No debate, just "you don't want to pay, you don't get the game". I just feel sorry for the players and punters that'll have to deal with going out in Christchurch :)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Oh and if it's only quotas that are being placed on South African rugby (and not crazy financial or "cultural" changes) then I think Jake White should stay.

    If you think about all the famous sports biopics, the great coaches aren't the ones that run away when presented with a challenge, they are the ones who stand there and do the best for their team, their country (or town or school or community), and their players.

    The black guys coming through might not be the best players in the country but they won't be some schmoes off the street either. Perhaps they could be great, but not if the good coaches don't want to coach them.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn,

    Not wishing to resurrect the RWC thread, but I have to say that this Jerry Collins story from todays Guardian is absolutely superb

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    A mayor ... has thrown a spanner in the works, and we'll doubtless have a whole lot of bickering between now and kick-off. But there will be a kick-off. So, even if our Word Cup curse cannot be lifted, could we perhaps not doubly embarrass ourselves?

    As an Auckland City ratepayer (ie I don't live in Manukau, Waitakere, or the North Shore) I don't recall us being asked to pay huuuuuuge amounts of money to revamp an underused stadium to host the RWC prior to Gov'mint bidding for it.

    They can blardy pay.

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

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