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Speaker: An Open Letter To David Cunliffe

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  • Peter Darlington, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    I don't really understand all this hating on David Cunliffe and the parroting of what various know-nothings in the media have declared about him. He had a conversation pre-election with my young daughter and she was pretty damn astute in her assessment, judging him to to be a genuine guy. Sure, he has stumbled along the way but there have plenty around helping him trip.

    My partner went to see him speak here in Nelson (I was spinning tunes on the radio) and she said he was relaxed, warm, genuine, and spoke from the heart. Pretty much nothing like the uptight guy we saw on the 6.00pm news every night.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 949 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Mr Mark,

    That implies that they were all still Party-Voting Labour in 2011 when the Party was led by Goff.

    I think they stayed home then too. That's a premise I don't maintain (though James might).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to izogi,

    Also keeping in mind that this is a guy who proudly stated, on the record, as being the person whose role in politics is “smashing your face into the ground”.

    Yeah, spotted that.

    As long as he remains an outlet for his political links, he’s going to retain the attention he has.

    I suspect his kind of connections will ensure that it’ll be business as usual until the slime seriously blows back onto someone really important in the National camp.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Ianmac, in reply to Peter Darlington,

    My impression as well Peter.
    Of course David was always under attack on TV News with very few "Conversations with a Future PM." Perception is everything.

    Bleneim • Since Aug 2008 • 135 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    My sense of David Cunliffe has been that he's entirely genuine, but comes across as not on TV (and therefore, the exact opposite of Key).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Two things: one, no one's claiming Phil Goff was the greatest leader of all time. He wasn't actively despised though: everyone knew he was taking one for the team.

    Two, Cunliffe campaigned on getting the "missing million" out to vote. The ENV strategy, all that stuff. They conspicuously failed to show up. It's pretty important to bring that out.

    As far as Grant's sexuality goes, he doesn't want to make an issue of it, but there seem to be a lot of pretty gross insinuations coming from Cunliffe's camp. Su'a William Sio's line about personal lives was particularly horrible, I thought.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Llewellyn,

    This open letter from James is heartfelt; but rings for me the ongoing alarm bells that resonate throughout NZ regarding the NZ Labour Party. This election only proved Its inability to effectively engage with majority of New Zealand voters. These ongoing internal issues that are put out there for the Public to see only reinforce a vision of a deeply divided and fractious Party that seems somehow stuck somewhere in the 20th century. John Armstrong's column in Saturday's Herald hits the many nails on the head better than I ever could. Best the Labour Party stops the ongoing public bickering and focus on a vision and strategy that can engage. An exciting opportunity I would have thought?

    Wellington • Since Oct 2014 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • jh,

    I think Cunliffe’s performance during the elction (with the exception of apologising for being a man) wasn’t too bad. Except that nothing he said resonated. It was like stew with no meat or bagpipes with no pipes. But that’s the fault of the PC Labour Party.
    Labour men are eunuchs.

    Since May 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Mr Mark,

    you, Keir and James are suggesting that, on the one hand, countless numbers of life-long Labour voters in Ilam have told you that

    This is called observational bias. The observer unconsciously focusses on and remembers those events that fit their preconceived ideas. That is not meant as a criticism of those people, everyone does it, even the best trained observers do it.

    It is the reason scientists insist on as unbiased a data collection system as possible. It is why I think any decisions made at this point, without proper data analysis by Labour, is unbelievably moronic.

    But that seems to be a theme with Labour's behaviour after this election.

    And to cap it all off Karen Price decides it would be cool to give all the right wing an example of left wing back channel dirty politics Un. F'ing. Believable.

    I seriously doubt I will vote Labour again after this debacle.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4461 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    If you’re angry that Labour is doing this process in a rushed way without time for a proper review and good data, get angry at David Cunliffe. This is what he wanted, from election night onward.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    If you’re angry that Labour is doing this process in a rushed way without time for a proper review and good data, get angry at David Cunliffe. This is what he wanted, from election night onward.

    Don't worry I am.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4461 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    I see you ...
    Don't know about anyone else, but to be honest, I found it a bit creepy to have personally addressed mail from both John Key and Labour*, pre-election... Slick, but ultimately impersonal, soulless ...

    and I got the 'Phone Call' from Dave,
    John never rang...

    sob!

    <* and, yes, I did help deliver some of that, too...>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Slater et al have no ‘moral’ position on anything. They’ll smear someone for being homophobic if they sense it will aid their agenda. Whoever the next opposition leader turns out to be, their partner will be scrutinised for vulnerabilities by these ratbags.

    They are going to be worse. Maybe a tad more careful but that's it. This is their livelihood. Has Collins gone? No. Has Lusk gone away? No,he's got a book out. Has Rich gone? No she entrenched support. Has Ede gone? Doubt it. Has Slug gone anywhere? Nope. Morals be damned.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    Voting for any party prepared to be part of a left coalition would have done.

    And the perception was that any coalition couldn't work. People look for strength. A strong Left would have been Party Vote Labour or Green then.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    No, it’s not but there’s also a good number of people, I suggest, for whom it’s not going badly enough to overcome a small-c conservative aversion to radical change. (And before anyone bursts a blood vessel, I’m not using “radical” as a pejorative.) It wasn’t exactly days of wine and roses for the Fifth Labour Government, but “don’t put it all at risk” messaging seemed to hit the target.

    I think the two differences between the 5th Labour govt and the current National govt in this area is:

    1. Labour got the government books on track by both reducing debt and started saving for the future with the Super Fund. National may have done as well on the economy (depending how you measure it), but the government books have been dragged well into the crap.
    2. When this is brought up National can just point at the GFC (rightly or wrongly) rather than at their tax cuts which has overwhelmingly benefited the rich over the less well off. Labour hasn't found a good way to tag them with this and make it stick - it's largely taken the economy and the government books off the table as an effective campaign strategy for them. That's somewhat nuts given that they've taken us from low government debt to reasonably high government debt, and they're running on their management of the economy and the government accounts.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    National should be running a mile from him. Anyone who allows themselves to be tainted by association with Slater will face considerable derision and criticism,

    From who? They may want Farrar to be more in between now but Team Key are not changing their winning formula. There will be a new Jason Ede. Or he may just be working from abroad. More subtle, maybe. This is a tried and successful formula. Just ask Crosby Textor, who incidentally will still be there in the background, just as they always have been.

    But will it have traction?

    Yes it will still be worth checking out. The context of this thread has been twisted in the last 24hrs when really it is just one mans view that we are commenting on.The MSM have picked up on it and done no investigation, just printed something. They will continue to do the same with Slug.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Su’a William Sio’s line about personal lives was particularly horrible, I thought.

    Yeah, he’s not even whistling for that dog anymore. He’s flat out calling for it. But I wouldn’t put that on “the Cunliffe camp”. Sio is a paranoid bigot who probably blames the queers every time it rains in Mangere – and he was when Goff and Shearer were leaders. Unfortunately, he also holds one of the safest Labour seats in the country and nobody seems in any mood to deselect his arse, so there you go and here we are.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to jh,

    Labour men are eunuchs.

    I suppose someone who uses "PC" unironically is not going to realise how offensive that is, but, um, it's really offensive.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to jh,

    Labour men are eunuchs.

    My entirely unscientific sample of Labour men from back in the day says your thesis is wrong.

    But a lot more seriously, what Danielle said.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Sio, is extremely conservative which is what keeps him safe in Mangere. The Pasifika Church are who he listens to and it's obviously someone with clout telling him what they want. He is merely doing as he is told.Until his constituents say otherwise ,he will repeat their views. I honestly don't know his view (I did ask a while back but he never responded) Sadly ,I got the impression ,he joins them in their view. Sadly some people are stuck in the dark ages. And that is the nub of it. Labour is a large cross section of society. Unless they write a new Manual and line up and shoot those who don't comply, we will always see division. I guess HC did a very good job of keeping all in the Party on message. Maybe a pep talk from Helen is needed for the Labour Caucus

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    He's also one of Cunliffe's key lieutenants. There's no way he'd be saying that if DC wasn't giving him at least tacit approval, especially given the "community leader" story that appeared that morning. I don't think that's good enough for the Labour Party.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Greg Dawson, in reply to jh,

    I think Cunliffe’s performance during the elction (with the exception of apologising for being a man) wasn’t too bad. Except that nothing he said resonated. It was like stew with no meat or bagpipes with no pipes. But that’s the fault of the PC Labour Party.
    Labour men are eunuchs.

    Yeah, those f*cking women, ruining our mans man party.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 294 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    From whom?

    The likes of PA, Pundit etc one would hope. But if you are talking MSM then their track record is not good, I agree.

    If there is no change in attitude toward this type of behaviour (whether it the reaction of the electorate or the way in which the media discerns the provenance of a story and the way in which it is reported), then perhaps we don't deserve better.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Tinakori, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    "Labour hasn’t found a good way to tag them with this and make it stick – it’s largely taken the economy and the government books off the table as an effective campaign strategy for them."

    That's probably because Labour wanted a lot more government spending that even with higher tax rates would have required more borrowing , a higher deficit and more public debt. It was not a profitable angle from which Labour could attack National.

    Incidentally, the dog that isn't barking in the discussion of sexuality is the not particularly distinguished performance of Labour MPs towards Chris Finlayson in Parliament. Didn't see too much dissent from Trevor Mallard and co calling him tinker bell. I think Kevin Hague agreed it was seriously dumb but can't remember anyone in the Labour caucus doing so.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2013 • 118 posts Report Reply

  • Greg Dawson, in reply to Tinakori,

    Didn’t see too much dissent from Trevor Mallard and co calling him tinker bell. I think Kevin Hague agreed it was seriously dumb but can’t remember anyone in the Labour caucus doing so.

    I think most everyone but Trevor believes he's due to retire from parliament. Occasionally useful as electorate MP (mine, incidentally) but absolutely terrible in the house and the party.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 294 posts Report Reply

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