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Speaker: Facing the floods

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  • Ian Dalziel,

    I posted this over on The Standard site re Dudley Creek area:

    I too live in this area, and regularly walk along Stapletons Road by Dudley Creek, the current creek bed is pretty much silted up to where the bank tops used to be in many places, such that it hardly flows under Shirley Road and therefore backs up back towards Flockton Basin, Aylesford & Emmett street area (That may not be Dudley Creek per se, but it is a tributary - several creeks join Dudley Creek in this area). The bit near Shirley Rd hasn't had the flows and has little scouring out.
    I am surprised it hasn't been dug out at least back to prior levels.
    Maybe we should organise a working bee, get some shovels and pile it on to the road for the council or someone to take away.
    And yes the scouring along the Banks Ave stretch has it almost looking like a healthy river again - though tidal effects push outflowing water back up the creek.
    This area has always had a really high water table, I remember a flat in Berwick Street (between Cranford and Warrington sts) back in the '70s, digging a hole resulted in a swimming pool pretty quickly - about 10 - 15 inches below ground level - nowadays it is so sodden that nothing drains away much, water just pools with any rain!
    And they are putting more suburbs on our good market garden land which was part of the flood plain as well - it was called Marshland Road for a very good reason.

    Your point about the bridges is interesting, where Dudley Creek flows under Petrie Street that is the highest point in the road, so perhaps it has been thrust up and is impeding flow?

    But once they stopped the Waimakariri doing what it has done for millennia and put a built environment on top of an alluvial plain, well, compaction and land slumping was inevitable...
    maybe thats why it was originally called the Settlement of Christchurch?

    Keep your powder dry!
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Hebe,

    That might work for Flockton basin, but Flockton is only a small part of the problem. The flooding there is intolerable and affects a concentrated area, but the wider problem affects many more – possibly thousands – of properties.

    There is obviously a major issue with reduced drainage capability in the Avon and Heathcote rivers, and of the Estuary. I don't know how this can be remedied except with very large scale works.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    It's bloody complicated isn't it? Maybe having vast areas of red zone would have helped more if they were upstream in the Heathcote River and Dudley creek system. Makes sense what you say about building on Marshlands and the Waimak floodplain -- same upstream in the Heathcote, which also has to cope with a lot more runoff from the clay on the Port Hills.

    Bring back the Drainage Board!

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    The government/Cera's lack of decision-making on the red zone is the reason for the flooding in Kaiapoi. Why then is the region's red zone future still not settled?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/north-canterbury/9993822/Flooding-enrages-Kaiapoi-residents

    Specifically this

    " [Waimak mayor David] Ayers acknowledged there were ongoing flooding issues in parts of Kaiapoi and Fernside, near Rangiora, but said the council was waiting for the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority (Cera) to decide what would happen with the red-zone before it could do some of the necessary work.

    ''We regard it as a high priority matter. I don't think anybody wants to be scared every time it rains.''

    Contractors were already working to repair and improve broken drains and pipes where possible, but the council's longer-term plan of using the residential red zone to improve drainage was on hold until the Government gave its approval.

    ''The sooner we can get an agreement from Cera as to the infrastructure we can put into the red zone the better,'' Ayers said.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hebe,

    Bring back the Drainage Board!

    in deference to our wannabe TPPA partners, the USA, we could call it The Water Board - especially if want answers from anyone, any time soon...

    ... same upstream in the Heathcote

    True, that was all market gardens when I was a kid, with most of Halswell a flood plain for that hill run-off and any incursions from Ellesmere/Waimakariri - now exacerbated by new hillside suburbs - and daft areas like Aidanfield and other subdivisions popping up around the base of the hills.

    <aside> I must say how relaxing it is to not listen to Morning Report - it's almost 7.30 and I haven't had my stress levels pushed into the red zone once!
    So with some trepidation I will now read The Press...
    ...I may be some time. </aside>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Hebe,

    That rain gauge is miles from Flockton; it's on the other side of town. Completely different microclimate: rainfall,..

    Thats the closest that Ecan has ( mostly they have them in rural areas)

    Metservice shows yesterday was only 38.8mm in Christchurch ( Hagley park)
    Home user gauges arent reliable enough, those that have double the Metservice reading are almost certainly wrong. Other readings show it only varies by a few mm across the city ( excluding Port Hills)
    The historical record shows the highest ever monthly rainfall was 187mm and the highest daily rainfall was 125mm. (1975) This being 4x what you had the other day

    With numbers under 40mm for 24h you are a long way from setting any daily records. But of course the flooding problem is quite severe in Flockton

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Ball, in reply to Hebe,

    No. Slightly up the hill. I recorded 165mm after the big storm in March. We always get nearly 50% more than the amount recorded at the airport.

    Cashmere, Christchurch • Since Apr 2014 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    From the historical analysis of the Hagley park rainfall, it gives a 1%AEP about 90mm in 10 hr and 30mm in 1hr

    http://ecan.govt.nz/publications/Reports/review-frequency-high-intensity-rainfalls-christchurch.pdf

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Michael Ball,

    We always get nearly 50% more than the amount recorded at the airport.

    Well the isoclines of rainfall depth show only about 10% increase on the lower Port Hills over the flat.
    While your readings are different you cant compare them with the standardised ' official gauges'

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis,

    I have to say I am disappointed in the Mayors role in this
    She has a furiously keen mind and has the skill set to get things done
    But so far not much has changed, ok it is early days but she must have known the problems Christchurch faced, she was vocal enough .
    She has control of the Council so let us see some action and less duck shoving
    If anybody can make Chistchurch a better place to live in it is her and her Council

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 578 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    Agree there Raymond.
    Watching Dalziel on TV the other night she seems to have become a 'small person', like the people that used to get walked all over, and who Lianne had advocated for strongly, before as an MP.

    Is it because as an MP with a caucus, she could pick and choose the topics that interested her and now as Mayor she has a job well past her competence level ?

    Christchurch missed out badly when Jim Anderton was beaten to the Mayoralty by that charleton Parker

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    Watching Dalziel on TV the other night she seems to have become a ‘small person’, like the people that used to get walked all over, and who Lianne had advocated for strongly, before as an MP.

    The CCC can't do anything much without Gerry's say so. He has extraordinary powers under the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Act, which he has so far used mainly to crush the Council. Remember Share an Idea, and the CCC's Centre City Draft Plan? Binned.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    CCC environment general manager: he's talking crap re the Heathcote River. Fuck.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9996815/Lianne-Dalziel-responds-to-flooding-questions

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Can I just say, that folk in other cities pontificating on what should be done based solely on what they see on the telly, hear on the radio, or even read in the papers, is about as helpful, and caring as your average concern troll.

    What we missed out on is of no relevance, what we have, is what we have, and we are trying to work with it, and through it…

    We even have amateur weathermen, telling us ‘which way the wind blows’ from afar – that really ’blows’…

    How do I politely say ‘pull your head in’
    or even ‘fuck off!’

    <sorry Russell – feel fee to delete that last bit if it lowers the tone on an otherwise respectful conversation>

    [edit: to clarify – I am only talking at Steve Curtis]

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    What I really like is when people outside Chch allow us to speak, and listen to what we say. The situation here is so complex and difficult, and very few people outside Christchurch have any understanding of it.

    I get the sense the rest of NZ is sick of hearing about Chch troubles. You can bet that Chch people are much, much sicker of talking about them. Let alone having to experience them! But we don’t have any choice.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    [I'm aware that I'm outside Chch myself, just now!]

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    My Father in law went to Christchurch recently.
    He returned ashen faced saying it was like a war zone, he knows what they are like.
    He said he had no idea it was that bad. He is not alone.
    He was so concerned as to lot leave his wife's ashes there with her family.
    Our Governments action, or lack of it, is appalling.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Seconded.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Pakuranga Gall*
    Whoops!
    Looks like the wheels fell off the Maurice Minor
    parked in the Leaders Precinct!

    *Take it away you economic wizards...

    ..an error may occur, but at least some of it is preserved for posterity!

    sorry for that moment of levity, but Williamson, wow!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Crap like this from The Press doesn’t help one bit!
    the writer Glenn Conway must have listened to a different interview to me and the rest of the nation… or maybe it’s misplaced journalistic solidarity..

    This has heaped all the pressure on Dalziel and her staff, and there are signs she is feeling it.
    A radio interview on Tuesday had the mayor strongly and loudly defending her council but she seemed agitated at the line of questioning, talked over the interviewer several times and sounded rattled.
    It was not a polished performance.
    It was the voice of a mayor who must feel a bit under siege.
    Under siege from a Government which wants answers now so it can play its part.

    FFS the Government holds all the reins, and disputes, denies or doubts everything!

    …and as of 7.30 this morning the Williamson story hadn’t migrated to The Press web page – it is on The Stuff central pages, but apparently they think there is no interest in politics in Chchch, or is there an agenda here?

    aaah, again the bliss of no Morning Report
    - no ‘foghorn-Ferguson’ or ‘spinner-Espiner’ wittering on …
    …and speaking of frontline plonkers – have y’all listened to Paddy Gower’s bizarre approach to ‘journalism’?
    Hell, Williamson had to do his job for him – for some reason Gower thought he knew more about Williamson’s possible past actions than the man himself …
    so ya get Maurice trying to persuade Paddy that he might have transgressed in the past, but Paddy insists this is the first time – risible, mostly sad and disturbing…
    Listen here: Maurice Williamson resigns over police call then go to: ‘Maurice Williamson press conference’ in a sidebar.

    PS a Bouquet to balance the brick-batting above, Greg Jackson’s fine piece from Public Address has appeared in The Press on the Opinion page today – not on line there yet though. ..

    Unspeakably sad as it all is – it would be even more salutary to contrast and compare Greg’s fine piece ‘we are not ruined’ – reflecting on his experience of Haiti and Chchch – in The Press March 8, 2011 – to highlight the erosive power of ‘the Government’s help’ in reducing the city and the hopes of the people to broken marsh dwellers and refugees.

    PS here's the coverage of the Ecan-theft memorial gathering

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Crap like this from The Press doesn’t help one bit!

    From Moaning Report to parsing the Press - frying pan to fire in one small skip! :)
    - the Conway line is ludicrous. But it's clear there's a fast-emerging talking point from the right: pin everything bad in Chch on Lianne. It's palpable BS but it's beginning to take. (And similarly, any story about Govt problems becomes about Cunliffe. Go figure.)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2120 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I apologise for any offence my comments have caused to those Christchurch residents who endured the unendurable flooding.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    the Enervation Precinct
    More Government enabled backwards steps...
    aka the 'Soft sodden earth shuffle' or the 'Liquefactionist Jig'

    The tenants of the groundbreaking EPIC building has been forced to look outside the 'Innovation Precinct' for premises!

    Perhaps Gerry, Cera & Warwick at CCDU thought 'Innovation' meant a lot of applause in a pub - their inability to even organise a piss up in a brewery would be laughable if it wasn't so damaging...

    Quote of the year - Gerry Brownlee:

    "A lot of people find when they want something, they can't afford it."

    National is finding that out in spades...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Land prices in the wasteland have tripled since the EPICs started planning the new project two years ago!

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    I went to the flood drop-in today. Lots of ppl hving big talks, mainly about Flockton. However, talking with the CCC officials was illuminating. They must gather their info pronto so do fill out a survey and let them know what's going on for you.

    I've made strong suggestions about how to communicate what is happening so people feel less isolated and afraid and have contact points for help.

    Flockton is only the start, I was told, with the plan rolling out across the affected areas.

    They are working very hard on this but the communication they acknowledge has been difficult and are looking to improve it hugely.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

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