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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The Voyage: The Engine Room Dilemma - All Hands Below Deck</title>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260422#post260422</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 11:02:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260423#post260423</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260423#post260423</guid>
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						<p><q>Usually, that is bank shareholders, bank bond holders and then bank depositors, in that order. In 2008 this didn't happen. Governments chose to take over the bad debts to protect bank bondholders and managers. This shifted bad debts from one group of private lenders to taxpayers in general.</q></p><p>NZ is?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 11:02:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260427#post260427</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260427#post260427</guid>
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						<p><q>Rocket scientists got jobs at investment banks</q></p><p>It's somewhat telling that we (the voting public) chose an investment banker as PM and not a rocket scientist. We value the opinions of bankers and economists much more than the opinions of engineers and scientists.</p><p>Why would anyone want to work in?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 11:19:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260434#post260434</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260434#post260434</guid>
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						<p><q>we don't have many banks to fail.</q></p><p>This round, we isolated the clearly reckless lending into a tier of unregulated institutions like South Canterbury. That kept the impact of the crash on the mainstream banking sector to a minimum.</p><p>I don't think we'll be looking so good after China crashes.?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:24:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260437#post260437</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260437#post260437</guid>
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						<p><strong>Ship of fools...</strong><br /><q>We need all hands below deck to rebuild and <br />restart the engine while we still have time.</q><br />Failing that we'll <br />all be down there <br />pulling against oarlocks, <br />tugging our forelocks,<br />losing our shirts<br />to make sails, as<br />the Galley of State,<br />rudderless, drifts<br />reefward...</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:37:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260440#post260440</link>
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						<p><q>NZ is potentially such a marvellous place to live, because we don?t have many banks to fail.</p><p>The collapse can happen and we can be not on the hook.</q></p><p>You're not the first to remark on this. Having an outsized financial sector has turned out to not be a good?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:39:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260441#post260441</link>
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						<p><q>pulling against oarlocks,<br />tugging our forelocks,</q></p><p>Having a rowlocking good time! ;-)</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:43:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260443#post260443</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260443#post260443</guid>
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						<p><strong>Soap Opera Houses...</strong><br /><q>The Aussie banks we rely on are exposed to the commodities sector and to sourcing finance from mostly Asian offshore investors.</q><br /><a href="http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/share-tips/one-australian-stock-that-shouldnt-suffer-as-china-slumps-22100" target="_blank">The bubble is breaking...</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:49:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260445#post260445</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260445#post260445</guid>
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						<p><q>The world?s ability to invent and develop new tools and techniques to increase productivity has atrophied over the last 30 years</q></p><p>We've developed plenty of technology &ndash; it's how the productivity increase from that technology has been used.</p><p>The amount of 'blue-collar' effort required to produce valuable goods steadily declined?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:53:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260446#post260446</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260446#post260446</guid>
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						<p><q>Lose those, and they're in trouble.</q></p><p>Well yes, but assuming the eurocollapse/chinacrash global crisis thingamajig happens and causes that stress to hit the Aussie banks.  Then they'll go bust and after that we get some new banks.  </p><p>Worst that happens is we lose some deposits.</p><p>But we don't have to?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:53:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Richard Aston</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260449#post260449</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260449#post260449</guid>
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						<p><q>Aging populations are going to retire and get sick over the next 20-30 years, leaving a smaller group of passengers working and paying taxes for health care costs and pensions</q><br />Well I don't know about that . It may have been true 20- 40 years ago when those aging were?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:11:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260450#post260450</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260450#post260450</guid>
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						<p><q>Worst that happens is we lose some deposits.</q></p><p>No, worst thing that happens is that the cash machines stop working. And the EFTPOS, because one bank can't accept payment off another. So most people aren't being paid and can't buy food. Even if you have cash, the shops can't pay?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:12:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260452#post260452</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260452#post260452</guid>
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						<p><strong>shedding weight...</strong><br /><q>we?ll be ?starving with full barns?</q><br />Will no one think of the empty bairns?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:22:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Allan Moyle</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260454#post260454</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260454#post260454</guid>
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						<blockquote>.. the energy of the world?s best and brightest over the past two decades has gone?</blockquote> into endless patent litigation and defense tactics around every new nuance of an idea/concept/IP stifling advances that could provide compound results.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:34:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260455#post260455</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260455#post260455</guid>
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						<p><q>Within a few weeks, we'll be 'starving with full barns'.</q></p><p>Or we can change banks to ones which are solvent.  New banks will arise take over the business from those that go bust.  Everything continues pretty much as per normal.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:39:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260458#post260458</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260458#post260458</guid>
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						<p>The choice is to either pay $trillions to banker scum, have a "revolutionary path" or change banks.  </p><p>I think we should consider changing banks.  If our savings aren't safe and there is potential strife on the horizon for Australian owned banks, we can maybe change banks?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:49:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260459#post260459</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260459#post260459</guid>
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						<p><q>New banks will arise </q></p><p>Interestingly they may not look like banks. A lot of the functions that banks perform now can be carried out by other methods now. Do you need a bank to send money overseas? Do you need a bank to finance a new venture? Do you need?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:57:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stewart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260462#post260462</link>
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						I am still concerned that we (western economies) are still working under an outdated and increasingly irrelvant system.  A system that was formulated and had useful(?) application when most western countries had manufacturing and processing industries, but is not so good for modelling the 'late-stage capitalism' we currently experience where?
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:05:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>andin</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260463#post260463</link>
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						<p><q>one of the issues around the financial institutions is that as technology has advanced it has made them in many ways irrelevant.</q></p><p>So they are just filling their pockets while they still can?<br />I would not miss them if they disappeared</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:05:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>DeepRed</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260464#post260464</link>
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						<p>NZ is lucky to have a firewall between retail banking and investment banking. Even so, the contagion of overseas banking woes will likely land on our shores, if it hasn't already.</p><p>And, like Rob Muldoon in 1983, the usual suspects are basically saying that average NZers wouldn't recognise a current?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:09:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Fooman</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260466#post260466</link>
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						<p><q>Passenger jet speeds haven?t increased for 50 years</q></p><p>Poor example.  This has got something to do with transonic shock waves forming on the aircraft requiring exponential increases in thrust to overcome the aerodynamic forces, rather than a lack of innovation or evolution of technology.</p><p>The technological progress is shown by?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:16:41 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260468#post260468</link>
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						<p><q>where services (&amp; especially financial services ? spinning gold from straw) are the primary wealth ?generators?</q></p><p>You hear this a lot. And while I agree there is some truth in it I wonder if it isn't in part rationalisation for people getting paid large amounts for jobs that don't really contribute?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:29:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260471#post260471</link>
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						<p><q>Do you need a bank to store your money? Do you need a bank to pay your staff?</q></p><p>Umm, yes?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:39:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stewart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260484#post260484</link>
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						<p>I just feel that the 'paper shuffling' and all the smoke &amp; mirrors around the financial instruments that led to the global financial meltdown do not adhere to the basis on which our economies were founded.<br />I would love to see an economic equivalent to quantum theory and relativity and the?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:11:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260496#post260496</link>
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						<p><q>New Zealand, like many other developed economies</q> </p><p>Isn't the problem the narrow nature of our undeveloped economy?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:44:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260506#post260506</link>
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						<p><q>Umm, yes?</q></p><p>Really. I store bytes on a secure server. I then can manipulate those bytes to transfer the "value" to other people. Not sure I need a bank to do that really. I do need a secure network and secure servers.</p><p>Real physical money ... well typically I get?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 16:54:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260507#post260507</link>
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						<p><q>I would love to see an economic equivalent to quantum theory and relativity and the new ways of thinking that they generated. (Current economic theory = mechanical physics &amp; current practice may be better suited to some 'relativistic' economic theory.)</q></p><p>So far as I'm aware, there are a plethora of alternative?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:07:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260508#post260508</link>
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						<p><q>Not sure I need a bank to do that really. I do need a secure network and secure servers.</q></p><p>I suppose you can see a bank as a secure server where you store your bytes representing value. </p><p>But really, you can't run any kind of a business (except drug-dealing, possibly)?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:12:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>DeepRed</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260510#post260510</link>
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						<q>Bernard has raised a number of alternative ideas over the last year in the Herald. It?s quite amazing to read the shrillness of the commentary that disapproves, how bitterly it opposes even the slightest deviation from monetarism. But also heartening to see a lot of commentary in favour. Well done?</q>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:24:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260512#post260512</link>
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						<p>The only non-bank payment system to have gained any momentum is noted for <a href="http://www.cosm.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=230:paypal-troubles-the-full-story&amp;catid=20:news" target="_blank">arbitrarily freezing peoples money for indefinite periods</a>.<br />I don't think I'd be putting my salary in there.</p><p>(Or indeed into Bitcoin, which Doesn't Really Work).</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:31:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260513#post260513</link>
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						<p><q>I suppose you can see a bank as a secure server where you store your bytes representing value. </q><br />As long as you can afford electricity or there is a steady supply, or no viruses like stuxnet or flame (and we can thank <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/world/middleeast/obama-ordered-wave-of-cyberattacks-against-iran.html?pagewanted=all" target="_blank">Barack Obama for at least one of those,</a>?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:41:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260516#post260516</link>
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						<p><q>The world?s ability to invent and develop new tools and techniques to increase productivity has atrophied over the last 30 years.</q></p><p><a href="http://www.thebaffler.com/past/of_flying_cars/print" target="_blank">Everyone?s favourite anarchist anthropologist explains.</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:25:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Julian Melville</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260518#post260518</link>
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						I was a bit unconvinced by Graeber's article. He doesn't seem to consider that a major reason we don't have flying cars and home robots is just that science fiction authors know less about physics than they thought they did, and overreached themselves a lot.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:45:03 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260520#post260520</link>
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						<p>I'd agree: there are basically three things wrong with utopian ideas of the past and present:<br />&ndash; resource scarcity (e.g. supersonic air travel)<br />&ndash; laws of physics (e.g. antigravity)<br />&ndash; risk aversion (e.g.. flying cars)</p><p>It's only the latter that we could deal with by realigning our ideas. If we?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:58:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>chris</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260525#post260525</link>
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						<p>Thanks for posting that Stephen, some fascinating observations on the stagnation of our culture and the pervading bureaucratic spirit. This paragraph in particular resonated: </p><p>__"Then some laptop-wielding person in the corner, having performed a quick Google search, announces that this ?new? idea is, in fact, an old one; it?or at?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:10:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260526#post260526</link>
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						Yes, it would be a stronger article if he resisted the temptation to riff on the "dude, where's my flying car" meme and stuck to the discussion about declining rates of profit, the neolib project,  bureaucracy and control.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:13:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kiwi Nomad</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260541#post260541</link>
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						<p><q>Aging populations are going to retire and get sick over the next 20-30 years, leaving a smaller group of passengers working and paying taxes for health care costs and pensions.</q><br />Ah, the old 'how are we going to pay for all the retirees in the future' non-issue... 3 points to?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:50:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>jb</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260542#post260542</link>
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						<p><q>No, worst thing that happens is that the cash machines stop working. </q><br />Which is why you have $1000 cash as an emergency fund</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:51:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260553#post260553</link>
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						<p>You are lucky.<br />I have a $100 worth of coins that I can probably turn into shot-</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 22:57:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>DexterX</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260564#post260564</link>
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						<p>Gravity has a lot to answer for ? Defying the rules of gravity creates problems.</p><p>Attempts at Space Travel deserve a special Darwin Award when you consider that under the Space Shuttle program to get a get a 100000 kg shuttle ?up there? took a 2 Million kg ?appliance? -?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 07:37:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stewart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260565#post260565</link>
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						<p>Thanks for your thoughts there, Ben.<br />I may have been a bit over-zealous in hoping for a 'relativity' paradigm-shift, so your Copernican analogy sounds good to me, especially as it acknowledges the vested interests vying to retain their power by retention of the existing model.</p><p>I still have issues with?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:03:25 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen R</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260567#post260567</link>
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						<q>Well I don't know about that . It may have been true 20- 40 years ago when those aging were flogged out manual workers but I think the future of aging may be different. I am 60 and am not expecting to retire for quite some time and like many?</q>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:20:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260572#post260572</link>
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						<p><strong>Coincide?</strong><br /><q>I have a $100 worth of coins that <br />I can probably turn into shot-</q><br />Small Change got rained on...*</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2E-AUi7Eo" target="_blank"> <em>*Tom Waits</em></a></p><p><strong>Love it, loot it and leave it...</strong><br /><q>For a viable long-term future of mankind we <em>must</em> be <br />able to leave this planet &amp; colonise the multiverse...</q><br />Guess?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:49:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260573#post260573</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260573#post260573</guid>
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						<p><strong>not completely ingest...</strong><br /><q>The over-use/miss-use of antibiotics makes me fear that in the next twenty years we're going to lose that great tool against disease.</q><br />...and other <a href="http://www.livescience.com/20532-birth-control-water-pollution.html" target="_blank">bitter pills to swallow</a><br /><q>After the active ingredient in most birth control pills has done its duty preventing pregnancy, it begins a second?</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:55:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>John Armstrong</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260578#post260578</link>
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						<p><q>so I'm going quiet now.</q></p><p>No, please don't. You are gold.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:25:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260584#post260584</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260584#post260584</guid>
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						Chris Trotter has <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/columnists/chris-trotter/7042818/Creating-money-out-of-thin-air" target="_blank">an opinion piece on banks</a> in a recent <em>Press</em> which has put the cat amongst the pigeons in the comments section &ndash; now I don't know what to think...
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:51:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260601#post260601</link>
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						<p><q>No, please don't. You are gold.</q></p><p>Since you ask so nicely, one for the road.</p><p>I thought the Graeber article profound and disagree entirely with the suggestions that he should have limited the scope of it to be more convincing. That very suggestion is symptomatic of much that has gone?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 11:12:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260604#post260604</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260604#post260604</guid>
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						<p><q>...even more difficult to make into computer games (although some grand scale strategy games provoke similar thoughts)</q><br />Start small with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway&#039;s_Game_of_Life" target="_blank">Game of Life...</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 11:38:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Michie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260630#post260630</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260630#post260630</guid>
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						In terms of New Zealand's creation of business ideas and ongoing productivity I'd like to add <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=1" target="_blank">this</a> to the mix especially with our small proximity and relationships to each other and aversion to criticism.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 15:52:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>chris</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260643#post260643</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260643#post260643</guid>
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						<p>I felt Jonah Lehrer perhaps overstated his case a little with:</p><blockquote><p>"But there is a problem with brainstorming. It doesn?t work."</p></blockquote><p>as highlighted here:</p><blockquote><p>"Although this study is often cited as evidence that brainstorming does not work, it is important to emphasize that this study did not actually test the?</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 17:10:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Michie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260717#post260717</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260717#post260717</guid>
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						The <q>A Review of Brainstorming Research: Six Critical issues for Inquiry</q> link doesn't work for me. Having a look around the accessible pages it does appear that firm does promote debate of ideas and this was the aspect I found encoraging in the New Yorker article.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 10:32:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Richard Llewellyn</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260730#post260730</link>
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						Tangentially, in response to Fooman, I was part of a discussion with a very well-informed UK aviation official recently, who remarked that his recent conversations with Boeing and Airbus suggest that their engineers believe the march of aviation technology is nearing a wall, and that without changes to fundamental parameters?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:49:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>chris</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260731#post260731</link>
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						Sorry about that Tim, it?s a PDF, for best result Google the title, pdf link should appear.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:50:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-voyage-the-engine-room-dilemma/?p=260907#post260907</link>
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						<p>About not needing banks, this came up on my after dinner reading list yesterday<br /><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18370777" target="_blank">Peer-to-peer lending via the internet hits £250m</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:18:27 +1200</pubDate>
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