Whoa, hey, wait a minute. Giovanni was 'gravely insufficient' in English?

There was an add for chewing-gum on the telly in those days in which some girl said "it's good", and my (older) sister was shocked to realise I couldn't understand it. That was after two (nominal) years of English.?

Finally, my form teacher had some kind of conniption fit. I was absent. She phoned my house, but couldn't get an answer. She started dragging my friends out of class and interrogating them as to my whereabouts. "I know she's bunking",?

The earnest, humourless high horse might be fun for you, Mark, but its a bit dull for everyone else. Climb down and take some deep breaths, eh?

Then perhaps you could explain how I 'dropped my friends in it' by having glandular fever?

When you?

Suddenly the 7th form came along and things were either hard or boring. The only class I looked forward to attending was the 6th Form Cert drama class I was?

big ups Eddie.
Now?

"I absolutely disagree. I think conditioning children to give respect automatically to authority figures who don't deserve it?

the old kiwi third party stand over tactics... I'd call it tall poppy syndrome, but I'm a no one.

And suddenly Mark is the victim. You had a go at me, dear, I responded, you haven't addressed anything I said.

i sincerely care enough not to make too many

That's?

giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being.

I dunno how to respond to this except to say 'no it isn't'. Have we really, in your mind, never in history benefited?

giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and?

Hence Emma had her mum pwn her teacher

Except she didn't. I know you've told me to get over it, Mark, but this simply isn't true. When my mother went to the Parent-Teacher evening, I still hadn't got out of bed from the glandular fever. I only found out about?

on the contrary. giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being.

be they police officers, doctors, judges or traffic wardens.

If a doctor doesn't have my respect, it's probably because they're not a very good?

giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory

Um, ew.

My former boss disagreed.

ha! ok, Sorry for misconstruing events, like I said Emma, it's more the general trend that concerned me'

But... how should we then "respond to their failings"? If parents aren't allowed to protest on their children's behalf, and the system provides no opportunity at all for?

It's time New Zealand matured.

What, you don't think we buy into the bullshit enough, compared to more obedient peoples like the Chinese?

Let's hope we never do!

Um, ew.

it's simple pragmatism Danielle, would you like a speeding ticket or would you prefer to be arrested? I don't respect the officer, but I pay him respect as the situation required.

it's simple pragmatism Danielle, would you like a speeding ticket or would you prefer to be arrested? I don't respect the officer, but I pay him respect as the situation required.

That's not respect. That's fear.

it's simple pragmatism Danielle, would you like a speeding ticket or would you prefer to be arrested? I don't respect the officer, but I pay him respect as the situation required.

Ha! I am proved correct. Mark, you're conflating obedience and respect. A certain about of obedience to authority is?

giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory

Um, ew.

It just gives me Paranoia flashbacks.

ha! ok, Sorry for misconstruing events, like I said Emma, it's more the general trend that concerned me'

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the change in tone.

When the?

Bunking off was what we in the comprehensive school called it.

Wagging was what the Grammar boys / characters from Enid Blyton & Biggles books did.

I think we called it Wagging at Christchurch Boys', but I was from London and watched a lot of Grange Hill, so I called it?

When the children realise that the teacher is everyone's lacky, parents, administrators, students, then they lose the respect necessary to enable a good learning environment.

And when do you think this occurs? I'll admit to having inside knowledge here as my father was a teacher (which, like David Cormack, may?

I never did it because I hated the consequences – I knew I'd get caught by someone, whether parents or teachers. They had pretty good attendance systems, so could quickly check whether someone was acceptably absent or?

But I found that as a fairly intelligent, academically lazy dissenter, I could rebel in other ways. Creating general havoc by protesting against teachers' actions was much more fun than wagging to watch American soaps.

My main achievement as a dissenter was to have hymns removed from senior assembly. I'd?

on the contrary. giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being.

Still reeling from this one.

One of the great things about the 21st C is that we are starting to realise that the people?

we could jump on the noun.

3. esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of?

A good suggestion Sacha: one can be born with mana & lose it through wrong action or inaction. One can grow the (*generally) family mana one was born with. One can be born with little or no mana, but gain it, and grow it through skills and actions-?

"When you breed a culture where the teacher is not respected, regardless of how good or bad they are.."

I was not referring to mana, I was referring to due deference (primarily) in the classroom.

"esteem, worth,?

Stuart Coats

And when do you think this occurs? I'll admit to having inside knowledge here as my father was a teacher (which, like David Cormack, may explain the lack of wagging) but I think the kids work out quite early that?

"on the contrary. giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being."

Reworded for for the slarty's clarity;

**on the contrary. giving due deference to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for?

]]> Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:58:50 +1300 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85878#post85878 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85878#post85878 Bleh. Mark, I'm not going to get into an argument with you (even a joking one) about whether I'm properly educated or have a decent standard of literacy. You're fighting a pointless semantic battle that you're welcome to win.

I will, however, point out that I know how to use?

]]> Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:04:51 +1300 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85879#post85879 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85879#post85879 so why start a semantic battle Eddie?

I know how to use capital letters too Eddie, but i'm missing my left pinkie so i save myself the effort.

God i wish that that were true. Embarrassingly, I'm just lazy, and I do find that fullstops are kind of revealing. I?

]]> Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:08 +1300 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85880#post85880 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85880#post85880 one thing that can't be said about New Zealanders is that they shy away from confrontation.

RIP David Lange.

]]> Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:20:52 +1300 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85881#post85881 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-absence-of-malice/?p=85881#post85881

I don't doubt your literacy Eddie, I suspect you just wanted to have a bit of an internet joust.

No I just think you're wrong, Mark :P.

My pointless internet fight is currently tormenting the Canadian online store that refuses to believe that my NZ credit card is real. Immensely?

Called wagging at both (not that I ever did it). For HGHS, I was a boarder, and at Ashcoll I was a TK. Dad was Associate Principal, Mum also on staff. My parents would have known if I'd tried, and anyway the town was?

As I recall, both bunking and wagging. But, perhaps unusually, a lot of it internal.

In the 5th form, I was the chair of the divisional council, and thus able to conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with.

I think I had similar?

With my luck you would have been abducted the very day I didn't report your absence. Or your mother would have made a complaint to the school in the middle of the year because I HADN"T rung up and informed her of your frequent unexplained absences.

I'd like to think,?

conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with

Managed to avoid dissecting frogs by taking photos of a conveniently timed inter-school hockey game.

In the 5th form, I was the chair of the divisional council, and thus able to conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with.

Between conveniently timed flute lessons and a couple of jobs I "helpfully" volunteered for I managed to only go to about 1/4 of?

Hi Steven, mr half-ounce I presume.

Indeed.

It was the fullas in the big city schools who did the wagging, eh?

I was a desultory bunker – mostly in the 7th Form when it wasn't very difficult. Hopping in a schoolmate's car and heading out to the Ohaewai pub.

A?

I will retain my flimsy semblance of anonimity, and wish you well my old friend...I enjoy your stories.

Why, thankyou, and your anonymity is an interesting riddle.

And for Mark T; maybe I've got you wrong but I get the distinct impression you believe all authority figures have to be given respect. Well if that's what floats your boat then I?

Do you mind if I ask why? That sounds weird, I know, but... did it not occur? Was it out of fear? Did you just never really want to?

I never bunked. Never got a detention either. In my case I suspect it all comes down to having a loving?

I was however a persistent truant at primary and intermediate, with my parents' full knowledge – for reasons not unconnected with an item in today's news. Being?

Good schools teach that with sensible rules and teachers who can tell you which one you broke and what you need to do about it, and will listen if it turns out they've misunderstood something.

Really good schools get the kids involved in forming and evaluating the rules.

I have no idea about whether it was wagging or bunking, because I never did either, and only ever had one detention, when the whole class was detained, contrary to the Geneva convention, as?

And they address the vexing question of how one is 'meant to be', how?

And for Mark T; maybe I've got you wrong but I get the distinct impression you believe all authority figures have to be given respect. Well if that's what floats your boat then I wish you all the best.

yeah Felix, you've got it wrong. Not at all. I'm more?

I don't think I ever wagged from high school except maybe in the 7th form. I was in the s**t a lot in the 7th form. 'Attitude'.

The rest of the time...well I was a fairly dreamy kid. Very Very?

I just remember it was something I already knew. I was utterly furious.

This is just about the cutest story ever. Awww.

Oh, I forgot to answer the question. Rangi, 1988-1991 (no seventh form – I skipped it, much to my teachers' disgust). We called it wagging and I think?

A sonnet can be an absolute joy to write even though it can be hard work.

When I was looking at ways to present the crossbow story, someone suggested setting it as Shakespearean drama, given the elements of melodrama inherent in it. As a result, I have a couple of?

Back then the official thinking was parents should not teach kids to read before they started school but should leave it to the experts.

I'm not sure what the official thinking is now, but personally I'd endorse that.

I knew how to read before I got to school, and my?

It's the intrigue of them, don't you think? They're open-ended, riddles almost, so you are hooked into thinking about what they mean – quite different to being told what to do.

I'm not convinced teenagers have the attention span to interpret these types of questions for what they are. I'm?

So there goes any anecdotal correlation between wagging / bunking and high grades.

Never said there was one.

Never said that you did. But given that we're all quite good at reading texts and subtexts, and drawing meaning from the juxtaposition of facts, and lots of people were putting "wagging?

Back then the official thinking was parents should not teach kids to read before they started school but should leave it to the experts.

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves. Unless you just stop?

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves.

I asked my mother (who btw was a teacher) how to teach my children to read. Her response was 'good god, how do you stop them?'.

I was?

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves.

I found school tremendously boring for the first few years. It led to behavioural problems, not paying attention, hanging out with the 'wrong sort' etc.

Which you can?

Which you can trace to already knowing most things that they were teaching well before they started to teach it to the class.

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but__ is__ a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect?

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but is a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect 30 little people to all be working at the same level all the time.

That's true, but if you do have 30 kids,?

I got very little out of school academically except a counter-productive faith in my own cleverness and a profound mistrust of authority. In retrospect, I feel very sorry for my teachers.

What Stephen said.

As a non-truant, eldest child, who ended up in one of the professions (law), before leaving it for a more creative, less mentally constrained life and the precariousity of self-employment, I wonder if?

I got very little out of school academically except a counter-productive faith in my own cleverness and a profound mistrust of authority. In retrospect, I feel very sorry for my teachers.

Goodness, that hit the nail on the head. This year I went to my school's 50th reunion and was?

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but is a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect 30 little people to all be working at the same level all the time.

I'm sure a lot of teachers would be delighted?

All this talk of wagging has made me wonder: are truants more likely to end up self-employed?

Interesting question. I was thinking more in terms of what this thread says about the people who wash up here: we seem to have high-achievers who truanted, and high-achievers who didn't.

Although, as?

All this talk of wagging has made me wonder: are truants more likely to end up self-employed?

I dunno if my self-employment is down to my truanting, my weird sleep patterns, my protracted illness, or having a special-needs child. I have never been very comfortable working in a hugely structured?

I dunno if my self-employment is down to my truanting, my weird sleep patterns, my protracted illness, or having a special-needs child. I have never been very comfortable working in a hugely structured environment IF those structures don't make sense to me.

I've never liked having to be somewhere on?

I've never liked having to be somewhere on principle, and I dislike the wasted time and endless distractions of going to an office to work. I like to have control over the use of my time.

Myself, I'm a lazy, lazy person, who's happy to just go along with things?

It was one of the things I enjoyed about writing my Listener columns — the challenge of relating something important, but complex and jargon-ridden, in as clear a way as possible.

You're a geek translator, my man, and a top-flight one too.

The odd thing was – well, I think its odd – I got a really high score in maths in those PAT tests they used to give at the start of the year in around Std 4-Form 2.

I used to love doing those tests. That sounds show-offy but its?

I used to love doing those tests. That sounds show-offy but its not – the idea of doing well or not doing well never entered my head. They were just fun. .

I loved PA Tests.

I totally relate to the episode of Friends when Monica takes the night class?

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

Loved them. Multi-guess tests are a bunch of fun.

Gotta be careful how you colour in those little circles, though.

But then, tests were always a chance to show I'd done well. I looked upon them as self-esteem affirming events. Unlike Cross-Country.

Or netball.

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

I have no earthly idea what you guys are even talking about.

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

Loved them. Looked forward to them.

Klutz at sportz.

Oh, and at last, a cultural reference that Giovanni doesn't get. That's a relief – he was showing everyone else up.

Ooooh I loved those PATs.

Me too – aced them, but I remember the focused internal satisfaction of me against the test, not really to do with other people at all. And I still want to call it a PAT test, so there.

I longed to get to play with?

I have no earthly idea what you guys are even talking about.

Standardised testing for every kiwi schoolchild, oddly enough..

Oh, and at last, a cultural reference that Giovanni doesn't get. That's a relief – he was showing everyone else up.

Of course it doesn't help to live in the land of the long wide acronym. And school seems to bring out the worst, for some reason. I'm a trustee?

I liked them a lot too. Not least, because I felt good at them, but also because they were tests you didn't and couldn't prepare for, which were my kind of tests.

Exactly. No pressure really because there is nothing you can do to prepare you just have to focus?

I can see the appeal of technical writing

You're hired!

Standardised testing for every kiwi schoolchild, oddly enough..

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I have no memories of these tests, though?

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I quite enjoy filling in forms and I tend to be good at tests (sometimes to?

I'm prone to fits of intense activity followed by fits of intense arsing about. I can put up with any amount of ridiculousness in the short term.

My partner (also not the most devoted to his schooling) and I both have a problem with not understanding when things are 'not?

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I notice your winky face, but hasn't the point been made on the other thread that?

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

Become a librarian. Sigh.

I don't remember those tests, Kyle. But that doesn't mean they didn't happen. My memory: iz not so grate, aksually.

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

I've found the research, analytical and communication skills pretty useful in a few jobs so far. High-end transferable skills for the win.

Are those tests being discussed a bit like the ones we need to complete, correctly, in-order to get our drivers licenses?

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

I don't recall my actual feelings about them. What I do recall is going home after doing one in Standard 1 (I think?) and reporting to my mother that there had been an incredibly difficult arithmetic problem -?

I am on the Never Wagged team. And the Tech Writer team, for that matter

Almost enough now to challenge the PAS Women's team to a game – though there may be conflicted loyalties.

I, too, was a non-wagger what with it being a small town where being caught/spotted was almost certain and where there were precious few attractions that made the risk worthwhile.
My old man was?

I?

Almost enough now to challenge the PAS Women's team to a game – though there may be conflicted loyalties.

Imagine our play-by-play diagrams, though.

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

Liking something doesn't mean it's good for our long-term well-being though (see also my relationship?

Myself, I'm not a high achiever, the gardens overgrown, there's leaks in the roof, the car needs an oil change and I've got unfinished art projects, literally stacked to the roof.

Ditto to that too. I don't know if I did the tests talked about on here – i presume?

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

It gets scarier – I believe we have a certain triple-initial'd acquaintance in common, too. New Zealand – she is a small country.

To be a school "reformer" is to support:

§?a heavy reliance on fill-in-the-bubble standardized tests to evaluate students and schools, generally in place of more authentic forms of assessment;

§?the imposition of prescriptive,?

It gets scarier – I believe we have a certain triple-initial'd acquaintance in common, too. New Zealand – she is a small country.

Ah, that'd be you, me, and two other people on this thread.

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

What does a tech writer do – is it something like gathering all the relevant info for a set of processes, breaking it into logical steps, written so that a newbie can grasp it? Sort of?

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

*cough* Another tech writer here. Though I did dabble in governance/compliance at my last job. Got into it as several other people did: the old "What do you do with an MA in Philosophy?", realised that the chance of?

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

More history degrees!

Also, everything I know about the speed at which cats fall, I learned from PATs.

What does a tech writer do – is it something like gathering all the relevant info for a set of processes...

That, and writing the user manuals, online help, etc for software, plus writing maintenance manuals for machining equipment... anything where you're trying to tell someone how to use a?

*cough* Another tech writer here.

ok, this is just getting silly.

anything where you're trying to tell someone how to use a system. It's a surprisingly wide field....

So, do you have be techno-geeky for this, understand it all yourself, or is it actually quite useful to be at the new-user end of the spectrum – as then you don't have?

Degrees in acountancy, history and philosophy here (greedy over achiever!). Another area?

I was one of those kids that somehow ended up being a year ahead of the kids with whom I'd?