The other week I commented that the Green Party was the only one (in my experience) who knew how to do the 'party' bit right, I wonder how these guys?

...watching Senator Conroy's special Christmas train-smash closely

It is always comforting to look over the fence and see that it is browner on the other side!

I know of the male sex.

I know of the female sex.

Who or what is the australian sex? I got taught from a fairly early age there was only two to choose from?

Obviously, my sex education has been lacking...

Where you wrote "Australia made me a political party" I equivocated and it took me another five paragraphs to realise you're not running for office across the ditch. Which is a pity – for them.

Aren't you lovely. Here, have a pony.

I wonder how far I could get on?

Who or what is the australian sex?

You know how those koalas are all getting penecillin shots? Ahem.

Actually, now's the time for my legendary Australian chat up joke:

Bloke "Hey Sheila, yawannafuck?"
Sheila "I do now, y'smooth talkin bastard."

On a more serious note, though, one must hope that National take the same pragmatic view of a national internet filter as Labour did. Namely, it's not being considered.?

Even the Greens are a bit shy of the social liberalism causes listed above, in NZ. Maybe?

Maybe the Values Party had different things to say in its time – free love was a bigger cause back then, rather than something people just got on with.

I was a bit young when my mother was involved with Values. I remember communes and growing your own veggies -?

I don't think we're as open and liberal about sex as we like to think we are, either.

I didn't realise we thought we were, to be honest. As a country we fuck like rabbits, but heaven forbid that we dare talk about it (except when Durex puts out their?

So will hidemyass.com and other proxy servers also be blacklisted? Or can anyone use these to bypass the government-ordained filters?

How long before we see something like in New Zealand?

How far do we allow one?

How long before we see something like in New Zealand?

According to David Cunliffe Labour had no plans to investigate such a thing. I imagine Act'd get all kinds of pissy if National were to try and change that position, too, so we're probably safe.
Never thought I'd be glad?

...but there's no policy on their website

Certainly nothing even remotely sexy about this website, looks more like DHL or Express Couriers – pony anyone?

Bloke "Hey Sheila, yawannafuck?"

All class those Aussie fella's.

There are so many jokes so deeply inherent in just the name that it's almost too easy

Emma, I commend you on your diplomacy and restraint – certainly couldn't have done the same myself – far far far too easy.

I wonder though, had it been the other way round?

Certainly nothing even remotely sexy about this website, looks more like DHL or Express Couriers – pony anyone?

Also, in this picture, does Patten remind anyone else of Deborah Coddington? Or do I just need a whole bunch of therapy?

The problems I see are the secret lists. That means?

immigration (really? is that about how many spouses they can bring on family reunification?)

This was something I picked up on while listening to National Radio in the car, which isn't always best for details. They were interviewing a woman who works with Malaysian immigrants in Auckland. It sounded like?

Emma, I commend you on your diplomacy and restraint – certainly couldn't have done the same myself – far far far too easy.

Thanks, Ngaruna. That may be the first time I've ever received that particular compliment.

Also, in this picture, does Patten remind anyone else of Deborah Coddington? Or do I just need a whole bunch of therapy?

A cunning disguise for the pony perhaps?

A pity there's not some kind of, y'know, compulsory national sex education program...

My 13yr old son and similarly aged nephew?

Well, it's not illegal to be a practising Rasta, but it is illegal to smoke marijuana. And it's not illegal to be a Mormon, but it is illegal to have more than one spouse.

Yeah, and I'm fine with that. The day we start making special laws that allow people?

Act'd get all kinds of pissy if National were to try and change that position, too, so we're probably safe.

I think expecting Act to be our bulwark against social authoritarianism is a bit hopeful, really. Some of them might have these libertarian ideas, but when it comes down to?

I found this hugely distasteful. People entering into a polygamous relationship in Malaysia receive mandatory and extensive counselling first. Now they're being asked to say which one is their 'proper' wife – with all the loss of benefits and legal status for the discarded spouses that entails.

That's interesting. I'm?

I suppose it would be a counter to New Zealand First, at least.

One of the main justifications for policies based on restriction and oppression is the tendency of people to have screwed up lives, involving stuff like drug dependency, bad parenting or general?

I suppose it would be a counter to New Zealand First, at least."

NZ First don't have any teeth, so NZ Sucks is NZ First. :p

Gunner Rea was the fastest promoted woment in the NZ Artillary. Also the fasted demoted.

I think expecting Act to be our bulwark against social authoritarianism is a bit hopeful, really. Some of them might have these libertarian ideas, but when it comes down to it they're just another bunch of hangers and floggers.

Yeah, if you look at ACT's voting record on the big?

I think expecting Act to be our bulwark against social authoritarianism is a bit hopeful, really. Some of them might have these libertarian ideas, but when it comes down to it they're just another bunch of hangers and floggers.

Yeah, if you look at ACT's voting record on the big?

Is there?

y'know, compulsory national sex education program...

Yes, that went out with the drift away from cycling to school and associated facilities.

But more seriously –

found this hugely distasteful. People entering into a polygamous relationship ... being asked to say which one is their 'proper' wife

And –

The day?

Yeah, if you look at ACT's voting record on the big conscience votes of the last term (and I wonder if we'll get any of those this term) they're not really a socially libertarian party at all, just fiscally.

Yes indeed... here is an interesting analysis and a way to?

My logic is much more fiscal. Filtering costs, and would require a significant bureaucracy to be implemented. That goes totally counter to Act's positions and policies.

Not that I'm dying in a ditch over this, but locking people up for life is WAY more expensive than proper rehabilitation.

Is there?

According to my unwritten thesis It's Cold Eh: Let's Socialise the Health System, sunshine and liberalism are incompatible.

Er... ancient Greece?

Er... ancient Greece?

Better for teh gayz, not so grate for the chicks.

Er... ancient Greece?

All together now: "THIS! IS! SPARTA!!!!!!!1!!!!!ELEVEN!!!"

Ahem. On preview, what Emma said.

the Government will ensure that we get moral fibre to our doors.

I LOLed.

Better for teh gayz, not so grate for the chicks.

Not too bad for the chicks either, at time and in places – certainly far better than elsewhere. How about Spain right now then?

Beaten to it. Haaaart! (shakes fist)

I really need a more yellable name. Unfortunately, the only other surname I was ever offered was McGeachie.

Do you have an insight on Spain, BTW Giovanni? Because I found their 'gay marriage in a conservative Catholic country' kind of odd.

Anyway, I'm off?

Do you have an insight on Spain, BTW Giovanni? Because I found their 'gay marriage in a conservative Catholic country' kind of odd.

What can I say? I hate the bastards. It used to be one of the few countries that we could look upside down in Europe. Conservative, teeming?

Basically,?

..here is an interesting analysis and a way to test where your personal views sit. Political Compass

That's the concept I disagree with, that economics and social policy are independent axes. Like I say above, they're intertwined. If you favour economic liberalism, you'll wind up taking a social authoritarian stance?

What do we think about a South-East Asian immigrant falling foul of the SPCA and NZ law by slaughtering and eating a dog or cat

I'm fairly sure that if they're your dogs and cats and you slaughter them humanely and hygenically, you break no NZ law. They'll taste like?

They'll taste like shit though

The taxi driver I had last week assured me that black dogs are quite delicious.

I am all for social diversity and tolerance but we can only have one rule of law at any one time? if the Malaysian immigrant can have two wives, why can?t I? and if the Malaysian man living here can have two wives then surely a Malaysian woman can have?

If we allow people who are already in recognised polygamous marriages to come into NZ, and retain the status of marriage with all their spouses, why shouldn't kiwis be allowed to enter into polygamous marriages?

Well, obviously, I think that as long as every partner in the arrangement can give?

What do we think about a South-East Asian immigrant falling foul of the SPCA and NZ law by slaughtering and eating a dog or cat

Surely they'd have the pony first?

Also, don't forget that polygamy is a very one-sided concept. One man, many wives. Never the other way around.

Not to nitpick, but that's polygyny, not polygamy. Polygamy is just the having of multiple spouses. Polyandrous societies (one woman, multiple men) are much rarer than polygynous ones, but have existed.?

(My understanding is that bride prices are steep in Tibet, so going shares in a wife helps. Also,?

The taxi driver I had last week assured me that black dogs are quite delicious.

I'm guessing it's down to what you feed them with. Like chooks.

I'm guessing it's down to what you feed them with. Like chooks.

And many dogs are quite happy to eat chooks, that's what happened to ours.

They'll taste like shit though

The taxi driver I had last week...

For a moment, I thought you were going to comment on the flavour of the taxi driver you'd eaten...

Smother 'im in onions!

The same people might also want state sanctioned sharia courts here as well as they are in the UK, with all that comes with that

That sentence isn't exactly true, by the way, and certainly not in any meaningful way.

Also: Barcelona & Catalonia was a hotbed of European anarchism for?

Well, obviously, I think that as long as every partner in the arrangement can give informed consent, NZers SHOULD be allowed to enter into polygamous and polyandrous marriages. But I'm also aware that makes me a fairly extreme minority, and it ain't going to happen.

I struggle to come up?

a day where I sort of advocated polygamy

And got a very fast result from the telly folk, Emma.

For a moment, I thought you were going to comment on the flavour of the taxi driver you'd eaten...

Gawd....I wouldn't dream of it..we shared a christian name (he was West Timorese and thus Catholic).

I'm guessing it's down to what you feed them with. Like chooks.

Not likely, the?

a day where I sort of advocated polygamy

And got a very fast result from the telly folk, Emma.

I've sort of avoided posting on this because it's way outside my range of experience or knowledge. I just have to say though – I found that photo of that man?

I'd vote for it. Only objection is, as mentioned, that it's going to get?

In modern Western countries, polyamory isn't like that. Yes, traditional polygamy has been a hugely sexist, possessive institution – and a Judeo-Christian one, of course. But that doesn't mean that a modern polyamorous relationship has to be that way.

Hell, *marriage* has been a hugely sexist, possessive institution – until?

I just have to say though – I found that photo of that man and his two partners a little disquieting.

I think it's a 'bit disappointing' that they couldn't find one polyamorous relationship which consisted of a woman and multiple men, or all members of the same sex. (And?

Plus of course they modernised economically, invested in

To bring things back to Emma, they really don't like bare feet wandering through their towns though, as our kids found out on several occasions earlier this year.

education, beat us on penalties on the way to winning Euro 2008. The whole?

I don't think I'd pass up people called Summer and Kestrel either.

Ah yes, Summer Ale & Kestrel Super, jeez beer o'clock seems a long way away.

Only objection is, as mentioned, that it's going to get very, very complicated in terms of messy divorces.

Ohhhhh yes. Divorce is messy enough now, without adding that extra level of complication. We have no tradition of polygamous marriages in this country, or in any of the countries whose courts?

We have no tradition of polygamous marriages in this country, or in any of the countries whose courts we use as points of reference, so no legal tradition on which to fall when it comes to trying to decide how relationship property and children are handled in a divorce.

Children?

Children aren't dealt with via marriage/divorce, they're dealt with via parentage in NZ. That shouldn't be complicated, unless for some reason there was a refusal/inability to identify one father on the birth certificate.

Or if all the parties to the marriage adopted the child, which would be the logical step.?

since the courts are less concerned with the legal niceties of parentage and much more concerned with the actualities of who's been raising the child.

Not under the new Act. It has moved more towards both parents having a role in their child's life, and has put emphasis on the?

Both parents have equal legal rights now, who is doing most of the caregiving doesn't matter.

Yes, I know that. But we're now discussing a hypothetical polygamous marriage where there are three, or potentially more, people who all have claim to having been involved in the child's upbringing.

Plus, my?

Yes, I know that. But we're now discussing a hypothetical polygamous marriage where there are three, or potentially more, people who all have claim to having been involved in the child's upbringing.

It wouldn't matter how many people claim to have been involved in the upbringing.

Unrelated people have no?

It wouldn't matter how many people claim to have been involved in the upbringing.

Unrelated people have no rights to access to children. Parents have primary rights. Extended family have minor rights.

And if all the members of the marriage are on the birth certificate as parents? Or have all?

All you're doing is reinforcing the point that a shift from monogamous marriage to bigamous/polygamous marriage is an enormous migration in all kinds of societal thought and legal institutions.

Well yes. But I'd be dubious that, even if marriages of more than two people were allowed in NZ law, that?

I think it is important to distinguish between being parents and mothers/fathers

For an example – I am?

Relationships are always complicated, however simple they should be.

,

Yes, I know that. But we're now discussing a hypothetical polygamous marriage where there are three, or potentially more, people who all have claim to having been involved in the child's upbringing.

Then surely here is the" all people are equal?

Morally (without getting into whose moral code we are standing on here :-)), I can't see a difference between one-to-one relationships, one-to-many, and many-to-many?

The issue would be how to prevent "family" groupings like the Kahui and Glassie versions.

I'm sorry, but how do you mean? Prevent disfunctional family groupings or prevent extended families living in the same quarters and caring for each other's children? Not for nothing, but I think a lot of?

The ones where they are a family (in that they care for and take care of each other) don't make the news.

The issue would be how to prevent "family" groupings like the Kahui and Glassie versions.

Indeed, I think you will find that traditional monogamous married couples are perfectly capable of abusing their children. I said it a while ago on the original domestic violence thread, but abuse is caused by?

That's the concept I disagree with, that economics and social policy are independent axes. Like I say above, they're intertwined. If you favour economic liberalism, you'll wind up taking a social authoritarian stance because of the need to clean up after your economic policies.

I disagree. I'm basically a social?

That's the concept I disagree with, that economics and social policy are independent axes. Like I say above, they're intertwined. If you favour economic liberalism, you'll wind up taking a social authoritarian stance because of the need to clean up after your economic policies.

BenW:

I disagree. I'm basically a social?

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, citizen.

Why did you try to look at that Scorpions album cover, citizen? Perhaps you need to be re-educated.

And people might want to discuss the utter insanity of this decision as well.

I ran across that yesterday here, along with another example of utter insanity:

Chris Illingworth, a 60 year old from from QLD, has been charged with using the internet to access and publish child-abuse material after?

Chris Illingworth, a 60 year old from from QLD, has been charged with using the internet to access and publish child-abuse material after he republished a controversial viral video of a man twirling a baby around...

So that 'how we're drinking' ad, shown repeatedly on NZ TV, where the uncle?