Up Front: Are We There Yet?
777 Responses
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so what is necesarily 'fraudulent' about a marriage entered unto with a 'purely pragmatic' intent? Can anyone state this out loud?
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p, that was WAY over the line, way over it. If you have a pressing need to discuss anal knife insertion, I suggest you find somewhere else to do it, because you're not welcome here.
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Well that stopped the thread dead. Well, no, agreed something needed to be done to get rid of the hiccups.
Back a few pages
Missing link to the Huckabee interview above, here.
Very helpful, thanks Gio. I am coming to appreciate why the lack of traction in my point, now some days ago, that the main concern seems to be about the word marriage (rather than the substance, because civil unions provide the substance of what's needed or 95% at least) and this is puzzling when "marriage" has so many negative connotations for many people too.
It's so obvious that Huckabee defending the one-man-one-woman meaning of marriage was insincere and unreasonable when there is no alternative for same-sex couples, or not in the US in general (huge mess with 50 states all different). And those arguments are so familiar to many LGBT who've lived this for years, anyone using it must be similar (?)
But still, this is NZ and the law and the opportunities it provides is different (civil unions a HUGE step), getting pretty close to being fair, the best achievable through majority vote, so far. Evolution of the language is happening, and needs encouragement.
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OK I'm too tired to post properly, so instead I'll give you this to lighten your evening. I'm sure it will be seen by some as merely confirmation of what you already knew.
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last night my belle and I happened to be watching an old episode of the daily show(*) featuring an interview with Mike Huckabee. Here's part II, where they discuss gay marriage.
When it first aired, this interview riled me up so much that even yelling at the television didn't help. Spontaneously, from nowhere, a coping mechanism came fully formed into my mind. I now pass it on:
When someone on TV is seriously infuriating you, go get your checkbook straight away and make a donation to a counter-cause.
Seriously, try it. Better than any amount of talking back to someone who can't even hear you.
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My partner and I were just discussing what the celebrant is actually FOR and why you have to have one at all.
I presume it does have a role as an independent person at a wedding to ensure that nothing improper is going on - dragging the bride up to the altar and forcing her to sign up etc.
I don't know what training they get or rules/guidelines they have to follow, or if there is any standard in such things between religious and non-religious celebrants.
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dragging the bride up to the altar and forcing her to sign up etc.
"Excuse me, but before I can conduct this wedding I'm just going to need to check whether that shotgun is loaded."
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Aaaaand.... just as this thread drops off the front page, Obama announces his Supreme Court nominee, Sonia Sotomayor. The early chatter is that conservatives are nervous about her liberal race politics, but liberals might be nervous about where stands on abortion and equal marriage rights, given her Catholic background.
(NB nobody's quite sure how Catholic she is, but her appointment would make for 6 Catholics concurrently on the bench, which is pretty astonishing when you think about it. At the same time, the justices seem to be pretty good at keeping religion out of it, viz. Scalia who happily endorses the death penalty regardless of what the Pope says).
What is not in doubt is the awesomeness of her narrative, from poverty to Princeton, thanks to her widowed mum who worked two jobs to put her kids through top schools.
Meanwhile, the California Supreme Court upheld Prop 8 (while also upholding the marriages that happened in the interim). Dammit.
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By all accounts Sotomayor is pro-choice.
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while also upholding the marriages that happened in the interim
Which will be known in the future as 'the gay window'? How bizarre.
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Which will be known in the future as 'the gay window'? How bizarre.
I know! How will that work when doing marriage-related form-filling-out official things? If you're a same-sex couple, will you have to produce a marriage certificate issued between such-a-date and such-a-date? I foresee nightmarish bureaucratic holdups.
Also: feh.
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Stuff has a comment thread if you want bizarre.
People may turn to gay relationships if their original relationships don't work out.
Yeah. That's how it works.
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Oh Emma, that comment's a gem!
Children are no longer influenced by their feelings, they are influenced by the media (just look at Lindsay Lohan)
Oh yes. Lindsay's relationship with Sam has made me seriously reconsider my own sexual orientation.
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So if my straight relationship fails and I turn to a gay relationship and that too fails what do I do next?
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Lindsay's relationship with Sam has made me seriously reconsider my own sexual orientation.
It certainly sets the bar for a healthy, adult, enjoyable relationship.
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People may turn to gay relationships if their original relationships don't work out.
Man.
Who do I donate this toaster oven to?
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Rofflenui
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Did somebody say "Lindsay Lohan"?
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When someone on TV is seriously infuriating you, go get your checkbook straight away and make a donation to a counter-cause.
I knew, some years ago, the father of a staunch conservative Anglican family who used to do that. It was when Paul Reeves was head of the NZ Anglican church. Every time Reeves would pronounce his views publicly (this was late 70s-early 80s, the Tour, Waitangi protests, etc etc) this bloke would write off a cheque to the Salvation Army.
It got so bad his wife would hide bits of the newspaper or try to distract him if Reeves came on the TV news. It was costing them too much, she reckoned.
So if my straight relationship fails and I turn to a gay relationship and that too fails what do I do next?
Well, according to the news the past few weeks, there's a lot of pigs in need of a loving home.
What? Too soon??
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Aw, bless the Aussies.
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He said stories from the rugby league world had given group sex a bad press.
"This kind of thing has been going on since Adam and Eve," he said.
Oh basic maths skills...
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"This kind of thing has been going on since Adam and Eve," he said.
Oh basic maths skills...Heh!
"Adam and Eve and Pinch Me went down to the river to swim. Adam and Eve were drowned. Who was saved?"
The first time I heard that, when I was about five years old, it went right over my head (even though I answered "Pinch Me", and got pinched). Somehow it stuck in my mind that there was a third, slightly defective person of indeterminate gender in the garden of Eden. Only years later did it dawn on me that it was a bad kiddie joke.
Maybe there was something to it after all. Is there a special Australian version of Genesis?
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going on since Adam and Eve
Skillful implication of biblical approval, I thought..
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Oh basic maths skills...
To be fair, in those days the involvment of two people probably counted as group sex. Everyone was doing it, basically.
I'd still like an explanation of who exactly was doing the begetting circa Cain's generation, but that could be a threadjack of truly biblical proportions.
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To be fair, in those days the involvment of two people probably counted as group sex. Everyone was doing it, basically.
Very good, Giovanni.
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