Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Respectably-Dressed Sensible Demure Lady Stroll

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    And there’s also a time to make sure that brain-mouth filter is in good working order. I may internally cringe every time I see a woman wearing hijab – but I also need to STFU and respect the (presumed) agency and freedom of the women involved.

    Oh hell yes. And there are also hijabs that look pretty fly, and are intended to be so.

    It’s very easy to be “tolerant” of people who look and think and behave the way you do; the real test of liberal values is being tolerant of those who don’t.

    I for one simply dread the future in which you have renounced all bitchiness :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I for one simply dread the future in which you have renounced all bitchiness :-)

    I plan to be fully occupied with Tony Ryall for the foreseeable future. “It picks the tie that doesn’t cause epileptic seizures. It puts the 36oz navy blue printed Foulard around It's neck, or else it gets the hose again. Yes It does, Precious.”

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    No, that is a skin I do not want to wear. I’m going straight to the fava beans and chianti if the opportunity arises.

    Ah, now I know who he reminds me of...

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Next person to minimise the importance of female-on-male rape is going to lose their fucking face.

    If someone wanted to talk about that happening to them, that warning's not exactly going make them feel terribly comfortable discussing it if they didn't have the "appropriate" reaction, is it?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    1. Didn’t say there was any connection between Slutwalk and the House. You made that one up completely.
    2. Speaker should be enforcing standing orders. Curran challenged him to cite the relevant order and he couldn’t because it’s not in the SO. Hence, Smith made it up. As even Stuff noted, Jackie Blue did not get so treated last year.
    3. If you’re going to sound off about fashion crimes in the house, I have 2 words for you: Tony Ryall.

    The prosecution rests, m’lud.

    ETA Ryall reference made before i read the other comments, including Craig's that mention him. SO egregious.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I plan to be fully occupied with Tony Ryall for the foreseeable future

    See, that's the sort of shit that starts rumours...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to nzlemming,

    . Didn’t say there was any connection between Slutwalk and the House. You made that one up completely.

    Context, sweetie. For all the times I get accused of distraction-trolling around here, is it OK if I feel a wee bit uncomfortable with that being brought into a thread about an event that was inspired by a fraking POLICE OFFICER telling a room of young women that the best way to avoid rape was NOT TO DRESS “SLUTTY"?

    And I could really get bitchy and say it’s a shame Curran’s stunt got her more media attention than any actual policy coming out of her portfolio, and she apparently has NOTHING to say about her party’s own essay in rape culture. ( TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE, SEXUAL ASSAULT AND EPIC COMMENTS D-BAGGERY )

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to 3410,

    If someone wanted to talk about that happening to them, that warning’s not exactly going make them feel terribly comfortable discussing it if they didn’t have the “appropriate” reaction, is it?

    There's no such thing as an appropriate reaction for a victim. Everyone is different, and deals with it in different ways. And that's OK. And Emma's tweet might have been strong, but there's absolutely no way a victim would want to share in a forum where people were denying the possibility that it could even have ever happened.

    When people minimise the importance of female-on-male rape, (or male-on-male, or female-on female, or what have you - and I don't have figures, but I imaging the prevalence of rape on trans people is high, and extremely unreported) not only is it wrong, it's tremendously erasing of people who already don't have a lot of visibility. And it is immensely, incredibly triggering.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1268 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Oh, bitch. It's waaaay too early in the morning to be reduced to tears by such awesomeness.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Eh. I calls it as I see it. I guess the only difference is that I _do_ see it.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1268 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Kracklite,

    Ah, now I know who he reminds me of…

    I'm glad you put the second link, as I thought you meant the Ood at first...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to nzlemming,

    2. Speaker should be enforcing standing orders. Curran challenged him to cite the relevant order and he couldn’t because it’s not in the SO. Hence, Smith made it up. As even Stuff noted, Jackie Blue did not get so treated last year.

    And small point of fact, Smith cited a Speaker's Ruling (page 16, No. 7) from 2003. Perhaps you'd like to ask Jonathan Hunt, and the members of the multi-party Standing Orders Committee at the time, what they understand as "appropriate" (or "normal") business attire. As I said, it seems oddly vague; then again, I'm not sure more prescriptive dress code would go down any better.

    But, yeah, I think you're picking the wrong fight here. Please bitch Smith for being inconsistent in his application of a ridonkulously vague and anachronistic dress standard. But you're just not right accusing the man of pulling it out of his arse.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    Can I also just say how disappointed I am that there was an entire conversation about 'pearl necklaces" and no one made the obvious comment?

    I leave you lot alone for one night.....

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1268 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Can I also just say how disappointed I am that there was an entire conversation about ’pearl necklaces” and no one made the obvious comment?

    Even Lisa Simpson doesn't mix sportswear and pearls?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Can I also just say how disappointed I am that there was an entire conversation about 'pearl necklaces" and no one made the obvious comment

    I so nearly did, but it sounds better from a woman ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to nzlemming,

    Even Lisa Simpson doesn’t mix sportswear and pearls?

    Well, to continue Russell’s point:

    Personally, I think we should cling to the right to think someone’s else’s dress – male or female – is tacky, tasteless or inappropriate, and perhaps even to say so to our companions

    ...that shit is just sartorially wrong. But no, that wasn’t the joke I was anticipating.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1268 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    clip on earings

    did anyone else notice the story at the weekend
    about a young (16) son of the Maori King crashing a car and how someone in the family said he'd be getting a "clip around the ear" - surely this is now illegal!
    Will the correct authorities step in?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4197 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    And I could really get bitchy and say it’s a shame Curran’s stunt got her more media attention than any actual policy coming out of her portfolio, and she apparently has NOTHING to say about her party’s own essay in rape culture. ( TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE, SEXUAL ASSAULT AND EPIC COMMENTS D-BAGGERY )

    Awesome segue.

    Actually, Curran did publicly express discomfort about that. She discussed it frankly when it came up in the Trade Me forums. But don’t let that stop you raising it all again and pinning it on her. Perhaps we could talk about Doug Graham’s opinions on when rape isn’t really rape. Or perhaps we could not make a party political thing out of it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    And small point of fact, Smith cited a Speaker’s Ruling (page 16, No. 7) from 2003.

    At the time of eviction, he said “The Speaker has decided…”. He didn’t get around to looking up SOs until Mallard was asking for clarification and he looked clearly rattled. The “pulling it out of his arse” aspect IS part of his inconsistency. There have been some idiot Speakers from all sides of the spectrum over the years but Smith is the worst in my memory.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    But no, that wasn’t the joke I was anticipating.

    i was tempted. but my new station in life demands decorum.

    all the same, a fetish for a pearl necklace atop a rugby jersey? mixed message there.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2018 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Che Tibby,

    It was a soccer top, which is even more dubious... #insomeeyes

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to nzlemming,

    meh. if a muscular chest is your thing, then it's same same either code.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2018 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Che Tibby,

    all the same, a fetish for a pearl necklace atop a rugby jersey? mixed message there.

    Oh, I dunno...I still love rugby.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1268 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Actually, Curran did publicly express discomfort about that. She discussed it when it came up in the Trade Me forums. But don’t let that stop you raising it all again.

    OK, folks. Russell took the safety off so please note THE FOLLOWING MAY BE MASSIVELY TRIGGERING.

    I’ll happily give Curran what little credit she deserves for “expressing discomfort” on Trade Me! Might have been nice if this bullshit had actually gotten some mainstream media attention. At least as much as Paul Quinn’s appalling twat-cockery on Back Benches or Curran's umbrage at beiong ejected from the chamber for wearing a bloody football jersey.

    Over twenty years ago, I was anally raped with an object by a pack of thugs who thought it would be cool to humiliate the faggot. I wiped the blood off my arse, hid (and later burned) my stained pants and kept my damn mouth shut for two decades. Because I knew I wouldn’t be believed. Because I knew the verbal and physical bullying would just get worse, and since it happened at boarding school I couldn’t even go home to a relatively safe place at the end of the day. I had to share a dormitory – and shower – with the people who did that to me.

    I knew there would be people absolutely convinced that if I wasn’t a mentally unstable and malicious liar. That I must have done something to deserve it. Like actually being gay — and we all know what those people are like, right?

    So, yeah, I’m going to keep “bringing up” that the secretary-general of the Labour Party put an authorisation statement on a piece of shit that treated John Hopoate assault as a big fucking joke. (Still live, by the way.) That God only knows how many people at the most senior levels of the party must have seen it, and not been at all sensitive to the rape myths being not only perpetuated but played as a gag.

    To coin a phrase, what Hopoate did is not OK.

    It’s never a joke. Not because he did it to other men. Not because it happened on a rugby field.

    Ever.

    From anyone.

    But thanks a lot for giving me permission to be a little more than “uncomfortable” that a major political party still thinks perpetuating rape culture is OK. Chur, bro.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11614 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Oh, Craig. This is awful. It makes me want to race up to Auckland and sit with you and weep, and scream rage into the wind.

    I do recall Doug Graham's opinions about rape-rape and not-really-rape too: the ability to be massive twatcocks is definitely cross party. I wish the Labour party hierarchy would just remove the damned billboard/campaign thingy. Would it really be so hard to do?

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1273 posts Report Reply

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