Two, there nearly wasn't a comment thread here. I'd like to see ONE discussion where people talk about what they – and?

This is very much what many people want said.

I want this said.

For those of us who aren't familiar with the concept of triggering, can you please give us a brief definition?

You know how sometimes before a news story, they say "And a warning, the following piece contains images that may disturb some people"? It's like that. It's like this:

Trigger?

And, oddly enough, folks who've survived sexual assaults, domestic violence or other forms of abuse don't use a special font on-line — and I certainly didn't disclose being sexually assaulted to anyone for over twenty years for a reason.?

Also annoyed at?

Well said. Especially the second to last paragraph. I am on the side that doesn't think protests do much good to change anyone's mind, although that's coloured by my experience of student fee protests, which?

Zing!

And now, *sits back and waits for trolls*.

Because this demure lady is definitely also a slut, and proud to own the label.

But this issue sails close to 'well he looked like a poof / acted like one so we beat?

Well, yes. Isn't it funny how slut-shaming rape culture and the culture that says fags and trannies are just asking to be be kicked to death are joined at?

(Christopher, avoid Endnote if you have managed to so far. Do a manual bibliography even if it covers 40 pages. I was having so much trouble with my Endnote?

And this one is doing my head in, mostly because it was linked to from Arts and Letters?

Makes some very good points, not least that SlutWalk is another protest movement proving Malcolm Gladwell wrong about digital activism. There were ten people in that initial audience. The internet let them mobilise thousands. That's how this movement spreads from country?

?Because you?re not allowed to rape sluts either? beats my older sign (?Tits out for the sluts?) hands?

Sexual offenses are like all the other social pathologies we know of: they are largely caused by fatherless households. But that message, which emphasizes the importance of men in the?

Thanks to Emma for talking about this more. My city's Slutwalk was two days ago, and I missed it, *because there was no publicity*. Hope you get a giant crowd.

I know at least one person who volunteered with Men Stopping Rape. They did things like going into schools and having group discussions with (preteen?) boys, talking about?

If you have time to adapt, I strongly recommend Mendeley Desktop. Free, backed up online, compatible with Word and?

Widdums... really tempted to front with this sign: MANSLUT – OWNING MY PENIS SINCE PUBERTY

I'm sure Stan Lee won't mind. ;-)

Heh. That's a good idea. Perhaps I could wear my grandmother's clip on earings just to confuse the hell out of the media?

When you see the yelling going on elsewhere, and people name?

The whole thing was decidedly troubling on levels I haven't even thought of yet.

Yes, though I would refer you to this.

Did you have to? That was just before my time, but yes, seems we've come a long way [sic], through the hard times and the good, I have to celebrate you... sorry, where was I?

Did someone say High Heels? There's one for you Craig.*?

I think Megan might have been suggesting that there may have been some comments deletions?

No, no, not at all. I just meant that while everyone has so far been polite, I have little faith it will continue to be so. Certainly given?

Not just there, but paying tribute. Ugh. Ugh.

Contra that, I wonder if some people are still licking their?

Me too. It does feel a bit in the discussion that people are being sort of dared to come in and do that, which?

Sue already linked to the website for this, but it's worth having the video here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95-IL3C-Z8?

Anyway, I'm sure it's not the PAS Massive's destiny to be preaching to the converted.

My impression is that?

One thing I've noticed this time is a decided sideways shift from victim-blaming on the basis of clothes to victim-blaming on the basis of having had some drinks. I dunno if you'd call that progress or?

Faith in humanity: restored.

+1

And Emma, you lasted longer than I could. Trevor Mallard went up in my estimation though. How hard is that notion really to grasp?

Somehow, and I really do think/hope this kind of thing helps, the starting point for these discussions has to?

If this debate manages to have clash, and yet avoid concern trolling and mansplaining, I'll be amazed.

Prhps hrdr t gt s cncrnd bt t, snc fml-rp-f-ml s xtrmly nlkly (r mpssbl, dpndng n yr dfntn f rp). Th wrst tht wld hv mst lkly hppnd s?

For the record.

sexual activity, in relation to a person, means?

(a) sexual connection with the person; or
(b) the doing on the person of an indecent act that, without the person's consent, would be an?

For further record, that is not my assumption.

Emma, thank you for this. I'm intending to go to the Auckland event. Not sure what I'll wear, hope I have?

Possibly. Victim-blaming is never justified, but there's a difference. Blaming clothes implies that?

some of us manage to get through the day without being outsmarted by our genitals

Contains a link to this interesting (but somewhat dispiriting) piece on the UK slutwalks.

Wise move. Danyl's post and associated comments thread nearly made me lose the will to live. (I only read it yesterday, so the horror is still fresh in my mind.) What with the 'you're not?

I?m wondering if this is a darker side of White-Knighting. Many men will?

Admittedly I'm replying far too quickly to have searched for the stats myself, but the vast majority of rapes are committed by persons known to the victim and predatory rapists target women who seem vulnerable and "demure" over the sort?

And thanks Emma, for all your tireless work on this.

And Tau Henare. *sigh* Gave him a wee serve on Twitter starting with "Sweetie, I was a Tory when you were still Winnie's tame bitch..." Really must stay off-line when I've my flu-induced rage on...

And what it means for me?

I have seen "SlutWalk is problematic, it's not inclusive enough, it's offensive, I won't be going. I'm going to go to Queer The?

am late to the party, am very busy doing other stuff – so, possible reiteration of someone else.

my (most humble) suggestions for rape prevention are twofold, and?

Really? Because I read that and my whole frontal lobe went disco inferno. That wasn't so much missing the point as leaving the country to avoid it.

That's a very scary thing to do i.e. to interrogate your own past behaviour. It could be crushing. But it's worth doing, in the positive sense as well, working out when you handled a situation right, and what was right about?

i think too many people only associate rape with violence.

what recent high-profile cases have taught me is that the definition is far broader. broad enough to make me take a very long look at my?

Last year in Rosarno, a small town in the south of Italy, there were protests by African seasonal workers, the local populace (organised by the mafia) responded with raids and the police rounded up black?

"Enough is Enough!"

You're right though, the difference is one of degree, not nature.

Sure, but it's also important to recognise the vast difference between some of the cults.

Votes. What other reason could there be? Moral turpentine?

Well, I'm no fan of the Dawkins line on religion – I think it's pretty bloody stupid to be honest. So-called rationalists?

Exactly. I think the reasoning goes like this:
1) Even those with reprehensible views deserve representation in Parliament
2) As the Party, we are the best representation money can buy
3) ???
4) PLEASE VOTE FOR ME PLEASE!!!!!1!!!

Is this possible at more than the individual level? And maybe, come up with longer lasting solutions. But it makes me feel as if little has changed, the soup(society) we all swim in produces, with another?

Really? There actually are dress standards in the Chamber, and if you like please make a case that they?re anachronistic or inconsistently applied but let?s not pretend the incumbent Speaker just pulled?

Sounds good to me! So Akslutwalk then.
And did you see Campbell Live, extraordinary displays!
The smart one was keeping?

differently demure, perhaps? (with pictures)

that would be the key for me, ensuring no next generation of mine does stupid shit he might regret.

doing us all a favour really.

That?s an entirely legitimate question. I?m still not sure anyone (least of all Claire Curran) would welcome me fronting up to the Chamber in my Dykes for Bush ?04 t-shirt. Then the again, we seem to have bullshit like this pop up with monotonous regularity.?

now, i am not known for my fashion sense.

but i know i crime when i see one.

You're trying too hard. Nothing "vague" about it in this case. Adding a pearl necklace does not affect the fact that a netball top and a rugby top are both local sporting uniforms. Either both are allowable "standard business dress" for women MPs in the debating chamber?

Personally, I think we should cling to?

I wouldn?t even say ?disqualify?, if you mean from having MPs attend. I just think that if an MP accepts an invitation such as in this case, they?

And there's also a time to make sure that brain-mouth filter is in good working order. I?

eh? new heights of irrelevance I'm afraid

What, like ruling consistently that sporting uniforms are not business dress? Not at all tricky for a half-competent Speaker.

Oh hell yes. And?

I plan to be fully occupied with Tony Ryall for the foreseeable future. ?It picks the tie that doesn?t cause epileptic seizures. It puts the 36oz navy blue printed Foulard around It's neck, or else?

Ah, now I know who he reminds me of...

If someone wanted to talk about that happening to them, that warning's not exactly going make them feel terribly comfortable discussing it if they didn't have the "appropriate" reaction, is it?

See, that's the sort of shit that starts rumours...

Context, sweetie. For all the times I get accused of distraction-trolling around here, is it OK if I feel a wee bit uncomfortable with that being brought into a thread about an?

There's no such thing as an appropriate reaction for a victim. Everyone is different, and deals with it in?

I'm glad you put the second link, as I thought you meant the Ood at first...

And small point of fact, Smith cited a?

I leave you lot alone for one night.....

Even Lisa Simpson doesn't mix sportswear and pearls?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMHM6-_16LE&feature=related

I so nearly did, but it sounds better from a woman ;-)

Well, to continue Russell?s point:

Personally, I think we should cling to the right to think someone?s else?s dress ? male or female ? is tacky, tasteless or inappropriate, and perhaps even to say so to our companions

...that shit is just?

At the time of eviction, he said ?The Speaker has decided??. He didn?t get around to looking up SOs until Mallard was asking for clarification and he looked clearly rattled. The ?pulling it out?

i was tempted. but my new station in life demands decorum.

all the same, a fetish for a pearl necklace atop a rugby jersey? mixed message there.

Oh, I dunno...I still love rugby.

OK, folks. Russell took the safety off so please note THE FOLLOWING MAY BE MASSIVELY TRIGGERING.

I?ll happily give Curran?

I do recall Doug Graham's opinions about rape-rape and not-really-rape too: the ability to be massive twatcocks is definitely cross party. I wish the?

But jumping tracks from something else altogether to pin the Hopoate "joke" on Curran when she had publicly slated it?

Take care.

Mark

The thread's primary subject matter is delicate and unsettling, but editing your post to say that is just being bitchy. Seems there may have been other things I was unaware of rousing your ire about Curran but they don't?

Should you be thinking about what to wear to slutwalk? Surely the point is you wear whatever takes your fancy on the day.

I was at the other prestigious Auckland boarding school in the late '80s, and I must say, I was stunned at what a hotbed of psychopathy it was. These sons of the business and farming elite were, to a large extent, a sick bunch. I?

Nah, cos sluts plan their outfits carefully too.

Believe me, there are many plans afoot. Emma and I are going to look awesome.

My landlord keeps hinting that he has some properties in the Auckland Grammar zone which we could move into for the good?

What Megan said. Adding that I didn't say it HERE, and that I often forget my tweets show up?

I can believe it – all of the boarding school kids had far worse stories of initiations?

Well, I was trying to avoid launching into full-on Tim Gunn mode but here goes? If can explain to me what constitutes ?appropriate? or ?normal? business dress for women nowadays,?

When we were in Syria (and Jordan to a lesser extent) one of the neatest revelations was just how fashionable the women were. Yes they had the hair covered and their ankles covered but the?

Obvious statement is obvious

I'm getting it.

Okay, that's technically true, but it does appear on this page. It wasn't intended as a "gotcha" or anything. Hope it's not me that's the reason you want to go private.

Back to the point in question, where does that leave someone who might want?

Also, I have emailed you. Obviously there are issues in play here that can't be discussed in public.

There's a very big difference, as Russell has just demonstrated, between owning your own?

Actually that's unfair. The army team, and the navy team were fine. The police team, OTOH were the most fucked up team I've ever had the displeasure to come across anywhere in Australasia. I guess there's something deeply twisting about the potential?

I bleieve you could very easily call it common sense. Sports uniforms are not standard business dress. Hardly contentious – and I agree, a waste of?

Someone upthread pointed out the hard possibility that one's own actions in the past may have been rape and I think that gets right to the heart of victim blame.

I think that maybe one reason people shift so quickly to?

Sharing of experience, rather than mere opinion, is often a productive way through a sensitive debate. It's an important part of the culture?

Actually, those are fucking good ideas. So I doubt they'll ever get made, for the other?

Which was my argument all along with the infamous Lisa ad. (Sorry, yes, I brought it?

Perhaps, but after dipping my toe in the water, I don't feel like sharing.

But I'm not looking to hijack, so would prefer to leave it?

Also... shit, see?

agreed. being an enabler is as offensive as being a perpetrator.

@craig. as per our other conversation.

Because part of the mechanism for coping is to distance yourself somehow. It may play merry havoc with you later in life but it's a way of managing at the time. And?

yup. maybe 10 years ago a mate told me he was surprised i?d never told him my mum was?

Hmmm.... for me, the scary?

Always a good starting point

But they gave us George Carlin. I'd say we're about even.

They probably destroy the ozone layer with all their flying around.

Interesting how after being all serious and emotional I get just plain silly.

One problem with that, of course, is that it's possible to have sex where neither party consents.

I think we as a?

It's probably a better idea than telling them?

You never mentioned that you?d stopped, only that situations had arisen when you doubted consent but chose not to explicitly ask.

That is reading an unbelievable amount into what I wrote, and it's reading something very nasty into what I wrote. I talked about 'looking back' and interrogating my?

Is an extremely unfair leap.