If you're girly I'll make you braid my hair and listen to me talk about boys and girls, which believe me I can do for a really long time.

On visibility, I've noticed a trend lately in fantasy novels for some of the newer writers?

...every time you say that, a bisexual suddenly chooses a "side."

Or you should reply,

"Your intelligent and well thought out argument has convinced me. I am now ."

Also: HM Westfold, the racist nutter who writes into local Wellington newspapers, has a?

It's like the way right-handed people never notice all the little things about the way the world is set up that make life difficult for left-handed people.

Tell me about it. It sluts me off, the way company logos are always upside down on pens.

talk about boys and girls

?

?If you're girly I'll make you braid my hair and listen to me talk about X, which believe me I can do for a really long time.?

Where X =
"people I like"
"people I fancy" (or a much better word than fancy)
"cute boys and girls"

Basically I think?

Um, what's wrong with :

If you're girly I'll make you braid my hair and listen to me talk about boys and girls, which believe me I can do for a really long time.

It sounds like a playground. Skipping, knucklebones, bullrush... And if you change it to 'men and?

how too much emphasis was put on his relationship with his wife.

Yeah, men with wives and children AND male lovers are all gay. It's knowledge.?

And if you change it to 'men and women', it sounds... philosophical.

What about "ladies and fellows" or some other less scientific and more human sounding terms for adult males and females?

Or throw in an adjective or two to soften the noun.

(Great minds & all that, my tentacled friend.)

What about hotties which, from a bi perspective, can cover either gender?

Heh, I actually tried this once. Hilarious misunderstandings ensued. Especially if you're taking hotties to bed.

What about "ladies and fellows"

Now this... do Americans have that 'adding laydeez makes anything sound really sleazy' thing? (This is an?

...all depends just how much you want to convey in 'talk about boys'. Hetero girls?

Yeah, men with wives and children AND male lovers are all gay. It's knowledge. bro.

Hi Honey, I'm homo.
;-)

[why yes, I'd love some, thanks for asking]

"13" from House is another example of an openly bisexual character on TV... and it seems to be treated in a (relatively) normal manner..

And there's a quote from House at the top of that No bisexuals page, which at least acknowledges that she's not a lesbian. Sort of. In?

What about adding a verb? I talk about the boys and girls that make me

Squeeee?

But all I could think of was Mr Stagger Lee

"I'm a bad motherfucker, don't you know and I'll crawl over
Fifty good pussies just to get one fat boy's asshole" Said Stagger Lee

I know this from experience.

It's quite refreshing, especially in a book like The Steel Remains by Richard Morgan where homophobia is standard and the goadingly unrepentant gay hero is totally kick-arse.

I am obliged to briefly threadjack to recommend anyone who wants their fantasy to come with awesome gay characters to check out S?

Bisexual role models have certainly come a long way from Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct and Billy Chenowith, the slightly psycho artist in Six Feet Under.

The Depraved Bisexual. I used to write with a woman who did write LGBT characters despite being a bigot, but they were all of?

The Depraved Bisexual.

But that's the best kind!

"I do love my crumpet all hot and buttery."

Dammit! Now you've gone and made me ... hungry.

Yes, hence the name 13 eh?

That's mainly to do with the fact that House is a dick ;)

I?m open to suggestions. (Of course I am, you know what those bloody bisexuals are like.)

And baby do I have a suggestion for you...

I'm with the generic and ambiguous terms myself. Even for people I suspect are straight white christians. Especially for them. f**k'em if they need the?

Billy Chenowith, the slightly psycho artist in Six Feet Under

I could forgive the psycho if he wasn't so *pretentious*. Along with his sister. And his father. And his mother. OH GOD I HATED THEM ALL SO.

But I like the dick. :)

Good when they have 'em, not when they're being them.

But I like the dick. :)

Good when they have 'em, not when they're being them.

I have to say, and this is one of my language crusades, what is with English considering a person who is a "dick" a "cock" or a "cunt" to be someone objectionable. I tend?

And I'll take that as a compliment

As intended, I didn't notice the ambiguity.

I'm not so keen on the word slag. I do like tits, bums and library books.

Bob

As for nomenclature, as well as the "hotties" and "babes" solution, I go for "lust objects" myself. And yes, I say it in RL. Whether that would work for a particular character's voice is another matter.

For poly people, when talking about those?

"13" from House is another example of an openly bisexual character on TV... and it seems to be treated in a (relatively) normal manner..

Oh, I guess you've got a point in the sense that "13" is as dull and wafer-thin a character in that endless shark jump of a?

Billy Chenowith, the slightly psycho artist in Six Feet Under

When it came to psychosis, I think more of his incestuous fixation on his sister rather than screwing his mother's lover back in the day at art school when we all know everyone "messes around" at least once.

I could?

Or is using colour theory an inappropriate analogy, or, alternatively, could we look at bisexuality as primary instead.

Maybe bisexual people are just balanced?

Interested in what you think.

And why would heterosexual people find bisexual people extra appealing as soul mates unless it was some kind of kinky fascinated curiousity which seems a bit disrespectful.

I beg your pardon, how did you reach the, "you must be some sort of creep conclusion?

I just do not know why they would, which was why I was asking. Am interested in what you think.

And why would heterosexual people find bisexual people extra appealing as soul mates

Perhaps mabe, because there are as many sexuality's as there are people. But thats not actually the point.

I just do not know why they would, which was why I was asking. Am interested in what you think.

I have had relationships with bisexual women. I don't no exactly how to explain what, but it didn't have anything to do with the actual physicality of sex that I?

And I can imagine a certain kind of person who might have kinky fascinated curiousity, fueled by misconceptions from porn or something.

I know what you mean. I describe that behavior as immature, and very much a boys own bravado.

And I can imagine a certain kind of person who might have kinky fascinated curiousity, fueled by misconceptions from porn or something.

To derail slightly, this would be MUCH more likely to be generated by the Depraved Bisexual trope in mainstream movies and tv than by porn.

it is hard?

I mistakenly used the saying, "trigger finger" when I meant to use "hair trigger" to describe my hypo-vigilance, that I'm aware is not an altogether heathy?

It might be just like being attracted to a good singing voice.

Agreed. And then we make things difficult by trying to impose categories about who sings.

For instance, stereotyping all things emotional as "feminine" is not helpful for any of us. Robert Bly wrote of "a tremendous depth of?

Hey Steven, I don't think you were being oversensitive at all, I just let half formed thoughts out of my head and on to the internet ;-) What I originally typed did sound kind of aggressive?

So for a woman who is not quite bi enough to seek out a relationship?

So your logic makes sense to me.

But love is blind, in't it.

I'd love to be able to?

When we get to Captain Jack's ideal future, then we can let go of our quaint little categories.

Yes but, Captain Jack, is code for heroin.

Yes but, Captain jack is code for heroin.

Oh, this song is well weird to listen to these days:

Captain Jack will get you high tonight
And take you to your special island
Captain Jack will get you by tonight
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'

Quite.

It's impressive.

That'l do, I shall dye my hair now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uNgLFL8hqmI

Given that I can't see any reason why people couldn't be attracted to 'bisexuals'.

OK, here's a half-baked personal theory that I'll put out there to test the water:

No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum – 'people are attracted to?

No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum – 'people are attracted to people'.

But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

*nodding head in utter agreement*

I?

But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

Or they are comfortable/satisfied where they went in the first place and even if they are up to n.o 42 in the numbers game, still satisfied?
* speaking?

I'd also like to mention the fact that there are some guys who find the idea of going out with a bi woman rather exciting, I think because they can fantasise about her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

"[A]t the?

her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

I have a latino (necessary info) buddy from Phoenix who's 12 year marriage was in part based on doing quite a bit of that, unfortunately the?

Words like 'feminine' and 'kinky' can carry some very heavy negative connotations, but we don't really have anything sufficient to replace them with.

Oh yeah. I struggled with my wording above for ages and, in the end, had to rely on the intelligence and good-will of PAS readers to understand?

. . . when performing cunning linguisitcs, letting the tongue write the letters of the alphabet....

What, no actual sentences? "Dear Sir/Madam . . ."

What, no actual sentences?

Ha, depends how cunning...generally as i understand it, a systematic method of finding which letters work; being multilingual opens up universes....

No that wouldn't work, not that way anyhow.

So a woman who is sexually confident enough to have explored that side of herself (even if it was 'just the once at art school') is going to be a pretty attractive prospect to most guys.

While I'm not disagreeing with this as a generalisation about Out Bis, when you?

While I'm not disagreeing with this as a generalisation about Out Bis, when you break down by sexuality, the only group with a higher suicide rate than bisexuals is transsexuals. We kill ourselves and suffer from depression at a higher rate than even gays and lesbians.

Yeah there's a certain?

Islander, Barry Brickel had to put up with all sorts of subtle mocking, by the art writers, over his sexuality. He says he has?

Kindly asexuals who dont give a fuck (or take any kind of one) about any kind of sexual intercourse. Natural human oddities. Me.

Hear hear.(and yay for the hermaphrodites) my point about self awareness was heading in that direction.I thinkish sex/sexuality is such a small part of the relationship/bond between?

See, from my perspective I always thought people didn't place enough emphasis on the role of sex in relationships . Learning where I sit in that respect has?

Graphing sexuality is also complicated by the fact that drive in particular, and any other axis you can name to some extent, are subject to change with time, circumstance and experience.

Like, perhaps, the very singular "sexologist, physician, and social reformer" Havelock_Ellis.

"In November 1891, at the age of 32,?

multiple axes

Thats the bugger. I have a different picture of spectrum in my minds eye now.

Me too – cutting-edge research into the sexuality spectrum reveals, in image and supporting text, more axes than you can shake a stick at, and more diversity than plain vanilla axes that's for?

It doesn't seem odd that the biggest group are hetero...that kind?

Seems to me that if you're gay and you're out it's possible that?

I am obliged to briefly threadjack to recommend anyone who wants their fantasy to come with awesome gay characters to check out S M Stirling's work of the last decade or so, in particular the Nantucket trilogy. Mainstream fantasy + lead lesbian romance = WIN.

Oh yeah! Seriously good stuff.?

Me too – cutting-edge research into the sexuality spectrum reveals, in image and supporting text, more axes than you can shake a stick at, and more diversity than plain vanilla axes that's for sure.

Yes Chris, but those axes have no kinks in them. These do.

I am obliged to briefly threadjack to recommend anyone who wants their fantasy to come with awesome gay characters to check out S M Stirling's work of the last decade or so, in particular the Nantucket trilogy. Mainstream fantasy + lead lesbian romance = WIN.

Meanwhile, the enlightened Americans have?

But it's really odd that homosexuals outnumber bisexuals so much.

They don't.

Demographics of sexual orientation

he largest and most thorough survey in Australia to date was conducted by telephone interview with 19,307 respondents between the ages of 16 and 59 in 2001/2002. The study found that 97.4% of men?

I went through my teens not knowing what I was.

Didn't we all?

I desperately hope it's easier for bisexuals going through that now than it was for me – I only knew two boxes existed.

With your ability to articulate your own experience, and that you do, I am with out doubt that the edge has been taken off of it.

It may be blind, but it feels and smells, and I'm afraid I'm unrepentently heterosexual. I love several males, but they're not interesting as lovers.

It may be blind, but it feels and smells, and I'm afraid I'm unrepentently heterosexual. I love several males, but they're not interesting as lovers.

To be back on topic :), doesn't that say a lot about the paucity of our language? I have relationships with women and straight men?

That, to me, looks like the kind of scribble you do to get your pen working.

That, looks awfully like a big corporate tyrant stealing my stuff. I made that scribble mark. But you think I'm going to hire a lawyer:)

But you think I'm going to hire a lawyer:)

Not when you can draw a perfectly good one.

Yes, and no: there are a heap of words in English, and many in Maori*, for 'love and affection and friendship and loyalty and intimacy" et al – but so *few* of them get used. (i've been?

Stirling might be down with the gays, but someone really need to take a good hard look at casual racism as a fantasy trope.

Yeah, definite issues there. The Hot Ninja Lesbians vs. gay men balance also suffers from severe skew, despite background male gay characters.

OTOH, he usually has?

OTOH, he usually has a good spectrum of main characters, race-wise, so he's not *unaware* of the issues, and I vastly prefer my fiction with black and Jewish and Middle Eastern main characters to the many all-white worlds out there.

Um, how to put this? Let's say that it seems?

This is just going on his non-paper-published remarks, so I have no particular opinion on his published novels, but.

Really? Interesting. I read the mailing list that he participates on, and I haven't seen a great deal of this. I mean, there's stuff I disagree with him violently about -?

Yes, and no: there are a heap of words in English, and many in Maori*, for 'love and affection and friendship and loyalty and intimacy" et al – but so *few* of them get used.

Yes! Lots of times over. The word 'love' is asked to work awfully hard these?

One-fifth of gay and bisexual youths have attempted suicide and about half have harmed themselves, a new report shows.

The Youth '07?

for Fry's Turkish Delight bars

Oh Emma, I too am a Fry's lover. A... Fry's-sexual?

I hope the generated warmth doesn't make them too flaccid.

Flaccid is not a problem. Sticky, on the other hand...

that is what happens when you "Other" people"

Scary stats from the States* show that every time a state passed a DOMA at an election, the LGBT suicide rate went?