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Public Address
Since: Nov 2006
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Hard News: The Public Bad

You may have noticed that something has happened to your friends' avatars on Facebook, Twitter and Public Address System: they've gone black. You're seeing The Blackout, a netroots protest against Section 92(A) of the Copyright Act, which comes into force on February 28.

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Russell Brown
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 8828
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Just getting your attention ...

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giovanni tiso
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2007
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It's heartening that there has been such an international reaction about this.

On the protest's font, I still can't black anything out. Will have to paint the neighbour's cat.

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Ben Gracewood
From: Orkland
Since: Nov 2006
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the problem with Section 92(A) is that it places the adjudication of a legal dispute either in the hands of parties who are not competent to make such decisions (ISPs and telecommunications companies), or (in the approach endorsed by RIANZ' Campbell Smith) in the hands of one party to the dispute. To say this isn't ideal is putting it mildly.

This is the largest issue I have with s92a. In addition to the penalty being unduly harsh, enacting a law that requires only interested parties to implement it is madness.

I liken it to the ranchers and rustlers having at each other in the Wild West. But the modern bit-ranchers have a lot more power and a lot less at stake.

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Paul Campbell
From: Dunedin
Since: Nov 2006
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IANANZL - but having just read this again:

(2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work by using 1 or more of the Internet services of the Internet service provider to do a restricted act without the consent of the copyright owner.

"repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work" seems to me reads that one has to download/upload the same work more than once for it to kick in - will the ISPs really be keeping track of that? people accessing torrents are probably vulnerable but most music downloaders are probably exempt.

I know the intent is different - is there anyone around here who is a lawyer who would care to comment on what might be read if it came to trial

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Gareth Ward
From: Auckland, NZ
Since: Mar 2007
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the problem with Section 92(A) is that it places the adjudication of a legal dispute either in the hands of parties who are not competent to make such decisions (ISPs and telecommunications companies), or (in the approach endorsed by RIANZ' Campbell Smith) in the hands of one party to the dispute.

I ain't no high falutin' lawyer type - but this seems so blatantly against core concepts of natural justice that I'm floored it's made it into legislation?

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Chaos Buddha
From: Nirvana
Since: May 2007
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I spoke to a good friend who works for [insert name of large NZ Telco here] about all this, and he said that it's mainly aimed at people who upload music videos and the likes to YouToob, so as to gain some legal footing/footprint in case of needing to pass the legal buck.

He himself downloads media torrents from time to time, and says that he has no plans to curtail this anytime soon ...

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John Fouhy
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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(2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work

Can the ISPs say "Ok, we'll cut this guy off -- once the courts have established that he did repeatedly infringe copyright" ?

Or are they required to believe the complainant?

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Joshua Drummond
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 81

I'm fascinated by the phone calls - has anyone thought to record one? What do they say?

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Hamish
From: The A.K.
Since: Nov 2006
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Haven't posted here in a while...

On theme of what the telcos are planning - I've heard that a few ISPs have received legal advice to effect that the law is unenforceable. The feeling is that the have no intention of cutting off any customers without clear evidence, with the exception of those that would be violating their existing TOS anyway.

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Russell Brown
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
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Can the ISPs say "Ok, we'll cut this guy off -- once the courts have established that he did repeatedly infringe copyright" ?

One option is that they hand on the complaint to the police, who will not have time to deal with.

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Stephen Judd
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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he said that it's mainly aimed at people who upload music videos and the likes to YouToob, so as to gain some legal footing/footprint in case of needing to pass the legal buck.

So what? That's not what the legislation says. This is the kind of smug I'm-all-right-Jack complacency that really gets my goat.

Also, ask your friend whether he'd like his internet access yanked because someone repeatedly complained about him. If he says "but it's not going to be used like that", ask him how he knows. Then point him at some information about how copyright holders in the US have used US copyright laws, and ask him how confident he feels that they will not use all the scope the law allows here.

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Zippy Gonzales
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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What really creeps me is how the US entertainment lawyers are going to interpret the law. From what DPF has mentioned, no ground is being given to interpretation. They're playing hardball.

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Wammo
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
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Frustrating that RIANZ, IMNZ and in particular APRA purport to represent the copyright holders but have no mandate from their members (apart from the record companies in RIANZ's case) to hold their current stance.

The sooner artists can find more ways to weed out the middle men in their industry the more profitable it will be for them in the new digital future.

I'm dismayed at the lack of progress we have made in new broadcast mediums such as streaming on demand and podcasting compared to Australia and the US. The industry players still have not nutted out agreements that allow traditional broadcasters to explore new ways of getting creative content to wider audiences.

From my standpoint it is the artists who lose out first.

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Mark Harris
From: Waikanae
Since: Jul 2008
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it's mainly aimed at people who upload music videos and the likes to YouToob

As I said to the then Minister (Tizard) when Don Christie and I met with her and officials to discuss ACTA, it's the unintended consequences of such a law that I worry about.

Her response (correct me if I misremember, Don) was that there were no unintended consequences, which tells you a lot about the type of thinking that went into this law.

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Mark Harris
From: Waikanae
Since: Jul 2008
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From my standpoint it is the artists who lose out first.

Too right, but some of them don't see it that way.

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Ben Gracewood
From: Orkland
Since: Nov 2006
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Her response (correct me if I misremember, Don) was that there were no unintended consequences, which tells you a lot about the type of thinking that went into this law.

That really is appalling. How hard is it to do a tiny bit of research into the chilling effect of laws like this and the DMCA?

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Hamish
From: The A.K.
Since: Nov 2006
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So what? That's not what the legislation says. This is the kind of smug I'm-all-right-Jack complacency that really gets my goat.

Have to agree with that. Copyright holders don't need a NZ law to protect them from uploaders to YouTube (or any US based website) - they already have the DMCA.

Section 92 is designed specifically to target NZ downloaders with a complete lack of evidence, dispute process or recourse in the case of false accusation. I suggest that Chaos Buddha reeducates their friend on the realities of the situation.

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Stewart
From: Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere Chapter
Since: Oct 2008
Posts: 340

Thanks, Russell, for your post explaining all this complicated issue in a clear & concise manner (for those of us on the fringes & not actively involved in the issue).

It has cleared up some misunderstandings for me.

The wording that has been quoted from the bill shows that we aren't getting 'best practice' law definition from our government(s) and it makes us look kinda hicksville.

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Stephen Judd
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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Frustrating that RIANZ, IMNZ and in particular APRA purport to represent the copyright holders but have no mandate from their members (apart from the record companies in RIANZ's case) to hold their current stance.

I'll wait for someone from APRA to correct me if they're reading this, but my understanding is that APRA can and does have corporate members. They don't just represent songwriters, they represent any copyright holder. Further, voting power in APRA is a function of your copyright income from the previous year - you get one extra vote per $500 of income.

Seen from that perspective, I suspect they do in fact have a mandate from those members with voting power.

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Juha Saarinen
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
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I have some sympathy for National because the mess that's the new copyright act was Tizard's. No doubt the act needed modernising, but that's no excuse for the bad law she came up with (and which National and Peter Dunne voted to pass).

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Rich of Observationz
From: Back in Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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Essentially, they heard the name "Folele Muliaga" in their heads and knew they didn't want to go there

People rely on the Internet for vital life support? Or is that "no-life" support?

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Ben Gracewood
From: Orkland
Since: Nov 2006
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People rely on the Internet for vital life support? Or is that "no-life" support?

There are medical devices available that report status (blood pressure, weight, etc) via the 'tubes, but I'm not sure how life-essential they are, and/or if they happen to be in use in New Zealand.

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Graeme Edgeler
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Since: Nov 2006
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92A Internet service provider must have policy for terminating accounts of repeat infringers

(1) An Internet service provider must adopt and reasonably implement a policy that provides for termination, in appropriate circumstances, of the account with that Internet service provider of a repeat infringer.

(2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work by using 1 or more of the Internet services of the Internet service provider to do a restricted act without the consent of the copyright owner.

So where's the bit that says they have to cut me off on the basis of accusation only?

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Stephen Judd
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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Graeme: see here - it appears to have been the intention that "repeat infringer" could mean someone accused of infringement, rather than someone who had been found to be infringing by a court.

As far as I can see, "repeat infringer" is not a term defined elsewhere in the Act.

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Peter Martin
From: Dunedin
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 141

There are medical devices available that report status (blood pressure, weight, etc) via the 'tubes, but I'm not sure how life-essential they are, and/or if they happen to be in use in New Zealand.

Defibrillators implanted in people allow doctors to both monitor and make adjustements online. I understand it's done when folk are generally asleep with the wireless station near the persons bed.

I aslo understand that in theory it is possible to hack into it.

Ex US VP Cheney has one such implant. ;-)

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Stephen Judd
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
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Or to put it another way: the minister, the ICT industry, and the recording industry all think that's what it means. I can see it's vague enough that court might not, but why leave that to chance?

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Hamish
From: The A.K.
Since: Nov 2006
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92D Requirements for notice of infringement
A notice referred to in section 92C(3) must—
(a) contain the information prescribed by regulations made under this Act; and
(b) be signed by the copyright owner or the copyright owner’s duly authorised agent.

You can read up on the 'information prescribed' elsewhere, but this is what constitutes an 'infringement'. Get three of these and you are a 'repeat infringer' and the ISP is obliged to cut you off, otherwise they become liable under 92D.

The law is actually pretty specific about how easy it is to accuse someone, and the actions the ISP have to take.

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Joshua Drummond
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 81

I wonder how many people might conceivably breach this law. Would it constitute copyright infringement to watch a music vid on YouTube, let alone upload one? Or, even, to watch a home video online in which "Happy Birthday" plays in the background?
If so, wouldn't it mean that this law, if fully implemented, could (theoretically) see every casual internet user without internet access?

I also wonder about the effect on universities. IT students in particular indulge in a fair bit of torrenting on university owned servers, and it's not all Linux downloads. Given the broad definition of ISP in this law, does this mean that a whole university (in theory) could lose its ability to access the Internet?

And is there any distinction between those ISPs who provide access to data pipes, and those who provide the pipes themselves?

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Bart Janssen
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 714

People rely on the Internet for vital life support?

Yes, or more accurately for systems that are important if not essential for health.

And in addition there are a huge number of disabled who gain tremendous benefit from the internet.

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Andrew Long
From: Dunedin
Since: Aug 2007
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Ultimately anything distributed over the internet is copied. That's how it works. Perhaps it follows that the internet is a repeat infringer (on a faiirly massive scale at that) so should be compelled to cut itself off or at least, send itself to the naughty step for some time out ...

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