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Posted at 1:01AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Whoops – stuff up. Could happen to any of us. All writers of historical fiction could get caught out.

I see what you're trying to say here, Tania. I imagine that it's possible to make a genuine mistake in your field.

One mistake -- or possibly two (if you're terribly unlucky). But do you think you could accidentally do it dozens of times in a novel?

And do you think that you could do it accidentally in one novel (the Matriarch) and then be careless enough to do it dozens of times again in another novel?

And don't you think it makes a difference if you're a university professor (as opposed to a regular non-taxpayer-paid writer)? A professor in an academic environment where, if one of your own Ph.D. students had done such a thing, they'd be kicked out on their arse? (Or they certainly would have at my university -- perhaps Auckland isn't bothered by such things).

I have compassion for Prof. Ihimaera's plight -- as I would if he'd been caught shoplifting or drunk driving -- but don't you think all of the above is relevant to the case?

And sad that people have been so horrible and unforgiving.

I hope you're not suggesting that Dr Gracewood is in this category. That would be an outrageously unfair assertion.

Posted at 2:49AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Auckland Uni gets Witi's royalties and pays him a salary in return?

I have never heard of academic contracts that would garnish book royalties (although very few academic books earn enough royalties for this to be an issue). Most (all?) places in the US do require you to assign patents to the university, and will then split the resulting revenues, if any, on some designated scale. I assume New Zealand is the same.

I shouldn't think. The formula my university works (and I suspect others do the same) is that you can earn up to 10% of your salary from other income sources. Not that there is any way of verifying nor monitoring this.

I wonder, for example, about all the $$$ Dennis Dutton must have earned from Arts & Letters Daily, when most of his contribution was probably done in university time.

10% of salary sounds a little harsh -- I work in the US, and the limit is based on time. From memory, it is one day a week, but I have never gotten close to it.

I am required to fill in an annual disclosure of income from outside work, and directorships / consultancy that might amount to a conflict of interest with my academic work. Unfortunately this form is always exceedingly short :-)

Posted at 3:04AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

@Rich

So if you're a university lecturer, your work must be of "academic" standard? You wouldn't be allowed to write a semi-pornographic scurrilous novel, for instance?

It appears that Ihimaera himself asked the university to adjudicate this issue, and the university accepted jurisdiction -- and since he is paid to teach novel writing, the writing of his own novels is probably something his employers have a legitimate interest in.

I agree that if a chemistry lecturer was writing (say) Mills and Boon novels under a pen name, it is far from clear that any plagiarism in these would be an issue for the university. (Other than as a matter of "bringing into disrepute", if they have such a clause in their contracts.)

Posted at 3:38AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Tania, thank you so much for chiming in here - it is always good to hear from practitioners of the art, especially one who is currently tackling precisely the question we're talking about (how, and how much, to weave one's research and primary and secondary sources into a novel).

Apologies for misspelling your name upthread (am sensitive to such things) and let me say that I am eager to get my hands on Banquo's Son -- to read and enjoy, I hasten to add, not to run through my Naughty Writer Filter (pat. pend.).

Your thoughts and this fine blog post at Reading the Maps have me cooking up a follow-up post of my own. A sort of contemplative how to/how not to, based not (or not only) on what's permissible, but on what works.

In the meantime, I'm eager to hear examples -- mostly novels, because it seems to me that poetry makes different rules for itself, and that they work just fine -- of contemporary literature that cites or incorporates other material, and does it well and productively.

I'll start: Theresa Hak Kyung Cha's Dictée, UC Press, 1982.

And Peter Carey's My Life as a Fake (!) as well as his Ned Kelly book.

Posted at 3:45AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

@Tania

What I’m saying here, I think, and as I said on Beattie’s Blog, I am disinclined to join the others who have so quickly rallied to throw stones at a man who’s novel Whanau was the first ever non children’s book I read as a child. (My step-brother won it as a school prize). Here was a narrative which told my story with all it’s glory and heartache and laughter and tears and violence.

It is a real pity that this incident appears likely to tarnish Ihimaera's overall reputation.

But I think it is also true there was actually a good deal of reticence about this issue when the news first broke, and outside of a few fairly predictable commentators (Holmes, for instance) very few people engaged in public exhibitions of schadenfreude. If anything, the public reaction by the "establishment" was remarkable for its delicacy.

This would probably not have been a full-blown scandal if a) he had not accepted a $50k prize a week after the news broke (and he could have said privately to the Laureate people that perhaps they should revisit the issue in a year), b) Auckland had not conducted a risibly abbreviated "investigation" (and still shows no sign whatsoever that they "get it") c) his publisher had not harped on the "16 instances " and "0.4%" (or whatever it was) when it was far from clear that this was the full extent of the copying -- and it is now very clear than it was not -- and presumably after Ihimaera had reassured them that this was all there was d) he did not have previous lapses in this department.

Posted at 9:11AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

And sad that people have been so horrible and unforgiving.

That seems an extraordinarily poor characterisation of the tenor of the conversation in this thread.

Can't say I'm terribly impressed with the "asthetics is the only metre" argument in Scott Hamilton's post either. The Eliot analogy is just so unfit - of course if Ihimaera had processed the source material to that same extent it wouldn't have been plagiarism. It's a point that has been recognised at least a dozen times in this thread, but of course we've got it all wrong according to Hamilton.

Man, we suck.

Posted at 9:47AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

This piece by Rosemary McLeod seems very even-handed and humane.

(Although I will spoil it by adding that the inclusion of Alan Duff in the story makes me think that it is just as well Witi never became Sir Witi, so there is no opportunity for the headline "One Knight Out Stealing")

Posted at 9:51AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Horrible and unforgiving comment directed mainly at the tenor/tone of some national radio reports and 'the panel' and the word of mouth gossip I'm hearing in the staffroom and reading - not this forum which I joined precisely because I find the discussion helpful, measured, intelligent.

Yeh, and I think it would have helped to have declined the award.

I always find it a tad scary (despite being highly opinionated) having my say on things like this, afterall, I'm not an academic - just a high school English teacher - and not an award wining writer (hell, hardly anyone knows the names of NZ Children writers except for Margaret and Joy). But my latest novel is my 23rd published book.

Posted at 9:53AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

And Peter Carey's . . . Ned Kelly book.

Just subjectively, there are occasional speeches delivered by Carey's characters that struck me at the time of reading True History of the Kelly Gang as rather inadequately masticated slabs of anthropology. For example, Mary Hearn's account of the ritual killing of a horse back in Ireland. The impression was of source material being paraphrased, rather than lived and felt. Little glitches that briefly derailed the willing suspension of credibility.

Posted at 9:56AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Apologies, Tania, I misunderstood your point.

Very much looking forward to reading Banquo's Son. (I had this crazy plan of translating Ophelia Thinks Harder into Italian once, but things fell through. Different author, I know, but it's an intriguing genre.)

Posted at 10:01AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

(despite being highly opinionated)

But my latest novel is my 23rd published book.

Well, I think that qualifies you for the high opinion :)

Posted at 10:35AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Richard - Witi has passed the Knighthood equivilancy test.

He was made a Distinguished Companion in the New Zealand Order of Merit (equivalent to a knighthood in the old honours system) in 2004 for services to literature.[1][3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witi_Ihimaera

It is definately a case of "One Knight out Stealing" - well done on that call sir.

Posted at 11:21AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

George Harrison was sued for over £3 million for using an old song by the Ronettes ( He's So Fine )...

Not the Ronettes; the Chiffons.

But George Harrison's use was more than thinly veiled.

Wouldn't a "I made a mistake. I am sorry. Here is a corrigendum with ALL unattributed materials properly attributed which will go out with every volume sold" have done, rather than tearing down another tree to reprint the other 520 something pages? Like others it is attempt to bluster his way through this by talk of writing a new kind of fiction that is truly hard to swallow.

I know that Jolisa would like a novel which tells the story well ... but that may have to wait for rewrite some years down the track.

Posted at 11:38AM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

The inclusion of Lee Tamahori by McLeod is just wrong. In NZ he would have committed no crime and he has got the 2007 film Next out with a few big name stars, ok it flopped but he's still doing what he does.

Posted at 12:08PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

The inclusion of Lee Tamahori by McLeod is just wrong.

Weird innit? Just more of McLeod's prurient fixation with such things.
There's an uncomfortably patronising tone about the piece, as if all creative endeavours by Maori are somehow subsidised by a patronising establishment liberalism. The silly stretched comparison with Alan Duff simply plays into the latter's garbled racism. Why not, say, Patricia Grace? Personally I suspect that it's because there'd be no scandalous angle, and also because McLeod believes that all Maori success in the arts is underwritten by a kind of affirmative action.

Posted at 12:40PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Okay, just reading a book called 'Medieval Scotland' by Peter Yeoman which is mainly a summary of all the archaeological information gathered over the past twenty years. Have written at the top of my note book the title and author of the book, the ISBN and date. Am copying notes as I read such as what the latrines in the monstrey's were like (and what they have discovered in some of them!)

Am glad the author is boringly dry and factual with only a wee bit of personal conjecture. Less likely for me to graft a tidbit into my memory.

As others have said, it's about the power of the story and I don't want anyone reading what I've written to 'see the seams' as Jolisa said in her interview. I want people to be carried away by the thrill and passion and arc of the narrative but at the same time completely trust me that the colours I've painted in the background ring true.

Jolisa, I think it would be useful to post an article about what are the key ingredients to great historical fiction. See, though I love Gabaldon, I'm finding her latest hard going because it has SO MUCH detail.

Anyway, I need to get off this forum, my blog, Beattie's blog and facebook and get back to writing - I have a deadline!

Posted at 1:20PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

George Harrison was sued for over £3 million for using an old song by the Ronettes ( He's So Fine )...

Not the Ronettes; the Chiffons.

But George Harrison's use was more than thinly veiled.

They made him pay for that:

Posted at 1:35PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Heh! I love the way they use lines from 'He's So Fine' in the outro.

Posted at 5:21PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

I always find it a tad scary (despite being highly opinionated) having my say on things like this, afterall, I'm not an academic - just a high school English teacher - and not an award wining writer (hell, hardly anyone knows the names of NZ Children writers except for Margaret and Joy)

Just a high school English teacher? Well, I'd have a little more respect for those on the front lines of trying to beat back ignorance and illiteracy. Nothing "mere" about the best of that breed, in my not at all humble opinion.

Posted at 5:36PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Alan Duff used to come down and watch me play rugby.
That might be overstating it somewhat. He's mates with my then coach. Who subsequently got a 1 yr ban from Rugby for punching the ref.

Anyone had a squizz at Duffs new book "Who sings for lu"?

Posted at 8:42PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

I once heard Duff attempt to intimidate his Australian interviewer on ABC radio by playing up to the we-were-cannibals savage-Maori stereotype. Duff's interviewer feigned admiration for his toughness, and slyly suggested that, if he lived by such a hard-assed code, he'd have no qualms about being eaten himself.

Duff was momentarily thrown onto the back foot and, to the best of my recollection, replied "Eh? Well, he'd have to be a pretty tough warrior to, uh, partake of my flesh."

Posted at 9:24PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

Paul Buchanan ('Pablo') puts the boot into the University of Auckland for its comparative treatment of himself and Ihimaera.

In Mr. Ihimaera’s case it appears that, upon hearing that news of the plagarism was about to go public, the University rapidly pushed through an “investigation” of the matter apparently involving his HOD, the new Dean of Arts (who was not the Dean the fired me) and Mr. Ihimaera. No disciplinary board with colleagues outside of the HoD and Dean was apparently convened. Mr. Itimaera gave apologies and assurances, and the case was closed.

I really do feel for the academics of the University of Auckland who have to deal with this management. I saw enough under Dr Hood to be suitably concerned, and I was only on the outside.

Posted at 9:42PM on 22 Nov 09. Permalink.

I'm eager to hear examples -- mostly novels, because it seems to me that poetry makes different rules for itself, and that they work just fine -- of contemporary literature that cites or incorporates other material, and does it well and productively.

I'm a fan of how Kate Grenville has incorporated real people and historical documentation in The Lieutenant and The Secret River (both set in early European New South Wales). Her account of discovering the story and material behind The Secret River, which became a book in its own right, is also riveting.

Fiona Kidman's A Captive Wife (about Betty Guard) and Annemarie Jagose's Slow Water (the doomed career of a gay missionary) are also based on real people and events and have relied heavily on letters and diaries. I particularly liked Slow Water as it features my ancestor in a bit part, and I recognised much of the historic material (but don't recall how it was attributed). Going back further Elsie Locke's The Runaway Settlers is based on early Canterbury families.

I can't put my hands on any of these books so can't check how they credited their sources, but they are all successful examples of historical fact based fiction.

Posted at 8:27AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

What I’m saying here, I think, and as I said on Beattie’s Blog, I am disinclined to join the others who have so quickly rallied to throw stones at a man who’s novel Whanau was the first ever non children’s book I read as a child. (My step-brother won it as a school prize). Here was a narrative which told my story with all it’s glory and heartache and laughter and tears and violence.

Tania: As I said elsewhere, I would warmly recommend Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln. It sure looks like it's highest profile fan (a gentleman by the name of Barack Obama), took it to heart when appointing the current Secretary of State. But I can't blame anyone who marked her down after being outed as a recidivist plagiarist. I'm not at all surprised by reports that Goodwin's publishers audited the manuscript of Team of Rivals with the proverbial nit-comb.

Posted at 9:42AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

Rich

I take your point that there is some separation of private activities from University.

However, if a plant biologist does some woodwork then his homemade cabinet (a poor Krenov copy) is not really of interest to the Uni. If on the other hand he does some private consulting for a breeding company and it becomes clear he falsified results then that is the concern of the University. Essentially it is the use of the same skill set for which the University is paying.

Prof Ihimaera wrote a novel and is employed to teach his creative writing skills. The overlap is obvious and hence any question of his integrity in his private novel writing reflects directly on his role in the University.

Posted at 9:45AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

Fiona Kidman's A Captive Wife (about Betty Guard) and Annemarie Jagose's Slow Water (the doomed career of a gay missionary) are also based on real people and events and have relied heavily on letters and diaries.

There's also the famous example of Maurice Gee and Plumb, which drew on the diaries of his grandfather, James Chapple.

Ian Wedde in Symmes Hole used the diaries of James ‘Worser’ Heberley, a 19th century whaler (and the man behind the Worser Bay name). The book's at home but there's an acknowledgements list as long as your arm, from whaling histories to books about Polynesian navigation to a history of McDonalds. Probably as close as NZ lit had got by then -- the mid-80s -- to Pynchon-like fiction.

Posted at 9:48AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

And sad that people have been so horrible and unforgiving. Whoops – stuff up.

Tania I accept that people make mistakes. What I am uncomfortable (and a bit angry) about is that instead of admitting the failure and doing everything in their power to rectify it, both the University and Prof Ihimaera have tried to minimize and dismiss and deny.

If they had acknowledged the error and fixed it, it would been embarrassing but not anything more than that.

Posted at 9:49AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

So I heard a "rumour" on the weekend -- and it's not the first time that I have heard it, and from sources as reputable as you would want -- that Witi Ihimaera "farms out" the grunt work of writing his novels to a collection of minions*. He supplies the plot/narrative framework, and they flesh it out with the words.

* Insert protogés, disciples, apprentices, whatever.

Several questions/points come to mind, if indeed this is true:
[1] Is Witi taking the fall for one of the minions' sloppy work?
[2] If so, it could explain the less-than-satisfactory response by he, Auckland Uni, and Penguin.
[3] This rather complicates the notion of "authorship" and name/brand that seems to be a central concern in the arguments of those baying about this evil known as plagiarism.
[4] Equally, this encourages me in my own quest to re-determine the nature of authorship and the ownership of sequences of letters and punctuation marks as a far-less pedantic concept.

Is it true? Is this a common practice, does anyone know? Amongst writers of the Historical Fiction genre?

Posted at 9:58AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

I've been in places where that happens, & this result is never a mistake.

Posted at 10:00AM on 23 Nov 09. Permalink.

For the purposes of the PBRF, research is original investigation undertaken in order to contribute to knowledge and understanding and, in the case of some disciplines, cultural innovation or aesthetic refinement.
It typically involves enquiry of an experimental or critical nature driven by hypotheses or intellectual positions capable of rigorous assessment by experts in a given discipline.

It is an independent* creative, cumulative and often long-term activity conducted by people with specialist knowledge about the theories, methods and information concerning their field of enquiry. Its findings must be open to scrutiny and formal evaluation by others in the field, and this may be achieved through publication or public presentation.
In some disciplines, the investigation and its results may be embodied in the form of artistic works, designs or performances.

[...]

I just looked up the PBRF definition of "research" - which shows up on Auckland's website, amusingly enough -and it explicitly includes artistic works. We cannot be sure, but it seems very likely that Ihimaera's creative output would be used by Auckland to justify its share of PBRF money.

Where I live, a university that was not seen to be very serious about any suggestion of academic impropriety by a publicly (by which I mean the US Federal government) funded researcher would be in very serious trouble -- and it further mystifies me that Auckland has taken such a cavalier approach to this matter.