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Public Address
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1654
Hard News: Hell's Bells
I'm damned if I can see the point of musichy.pe, the venture for which the Mint Chicks have apparently ditched Warner Music, or tell whether it's really any kind of record deal, as opposed to a promotional launch for their new EP. But best of luck all round, I guess.
Lucy Stewart
From: Christchurch, NZ
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 992
The Men At Work composition itself is wholly original, but Greg Ham's flute break in the song as it has been recorded and performed has been deemed to be infringing, if not identical. Australians who thought they might have some cultural ownership in the old song have another think coming.
I don't think anyone would dispute that they're the same, I just don't understand how one riff comprising a very small percentage of the whole song - and not anything like the entirety of the song it appears to have come from - can entitle Larrikin to such a large share of the profits.
Tristan
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 79
I saw this men at work stuff on the news last night and i was a little mystfiyed.
One iconic australian song sues another... I dont see any winners in Australia...
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
They sounded good from Point Chevalier – and, I am told, Mt Albert, Kingsland and a number of other suburbs.
Oh yes. Thunderstruck in minute detail, whether desired or not.
JP Hansen
From: Waitakere
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 152
I've heard the Down Under flute line and the Kookaburra tune side by side (and overlaid), and I'm buggered if I hear enough of a resemblance to warrant 60% of royalties being awarded.
Certainly nothing in the order of, say, Springsteen ripping off the Kiss melody from I Was Made For Loving You (try 1:45):
Off topic a bit, sorry, but anyone know if C4 still have the rights to The Daily Show? Or is it moving to Sky's Comedy Central channel?
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
I don't think anyone would dispute that they're the same
They needed Auckland University's IP advisors on their side. I'm sure it was all inadvertent.
philipmatthews
From: Christchurch
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 405
There was this, in another SMH story:
The court heard that two of the four bars of Kookaburra were reproduced in Down Under's flute riff, which was added by band member Greg Ham after the song was composed. In an affidavit, Ham admitted adding the flute line to try to inject some Australian flavour into the song.
Justice Jacobson said perhaps the clearest illustration of the objective similarity between the songs was Hay's ''frank admission of a causal connection between the two melodies and the fact that he sang the relevant bars of Kookaburra when performing Down Under at gigs from 2002.
I had wondered whether it was accidental/unconscious plagiarism or they had assumed an old folk song was public domain. The latter, I would guess.
Story here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/news/2010/02/04/1265151932344.html
Paul Litterick
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 902
I stayed away from Laneway, because I thought it might be an open-air Black Hole of Calcutta, with bonus queues. It seems I was right.
ScottY
From: Scott Yorke's Waitakere Wonderland
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
I'm buggered if I hear enough of a resemblance to warrant 60% of royalties being awarded
Damages have not yet been determined. Larrakin are making noises about 60% in the hope they'll scare the hell out of EMI and the other defendants and encourage them to settle for a reasonably meaty amount (e.g. 20%). Standard litigation tactic.
Deborah
From: Adelaide
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 815
A sampling of both songs.
Geoff Lealand
From: Univ of Waikato
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 833
Will I be hauled through the streets and battered to death with tire jacks if I say that AC/DC are truly awful?
Just thinking
From: Putaringamotu
Since: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
In the dross of pop music I can't remember which one it is, but didn't K Perry or Emina sample Savages Swing recently?
Stephen Judd
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 2033
There are some near-identical fragments. They sound different because MAW set those fragments over a (harmonically) very different accompaniment. I would say that's a rather nice musical effect, to play a familiar phrase over an unfamiliar harmony.
This is an excellent demonstration of the crippling effects of aggressive copyright enforcement on composition.
In the old days, composers regularly quoted and referenced their contemporaries and near predecessors (as in that memorable aphorism, "minor composers borrow, great composers steal"). This is basically impossible now unless your work is too minor to attract attention or you are rich enough to negotiate rights.
ScottY
From: Scott Yorke's Waitakere Wonderland
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
Will I be hauled through the streets and battered to death with tire jacks if I say that AC/DC are truly awful?
Don't worry - I'll attempt a rescue. From a distance though.
philipmatthews
From: Christchurch
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 405
Will I be hauled through the streets and battered to death with tire jacks if I say that AC/DC are truly awful?
I'd leave Hamilton first.
giovanni tiso
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 4372
I'd leave Hamilton first.
Heh. Don't know about being battered to death, fans are probably quite mellow than most, but back in the day I liked them a lot.
3410
From: Auckland
Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1318
Between 40 and 60 per cent?
Greedy pricks. If it was up to me, I'd advise Men At Work to have a very good look at old Irish and Scottish folk tunes; there's a reasonable chance, IMO, that you'd find that riff.
'It's Choade My Dear'
That's quite a title.
ScottY
From: Scott Yorke's Waitakere Wonderland
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
Yesterday saw the release of another major Australian copyright decision. In a landmark case the Australian arm of the Motion Picture Association sued the ISP iiNet - and lost.
giovanni tiso
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 4372
This David Merrott fellow sounds like my kind of author. Am off to do some purchasin'.
Peter Darlington
From: Nelson
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 552
Will I be hauled through the streets and battered to death with tire jacks if I say that AC/DC are truly awful?
I doubt it, it's hardly a radical perspective.
I'm not a metal fan but I think ACDC were a bit of big dumb fun back in the Bon Scott days. They should have called it quits like Led Zep when he died though, instead of bringing in that ear-gratingly awful Geordie to replace him.
No metal band can beat Motorhead for the non-metal fan though of course.
\m/
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
I'd leave Hamilton first.
Sound advice
Alien Lizard (anag)
From: The Arrrgh Complex
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 158
re: Men at Work song
can't say I can hear the two pieces as being exactly the same either...
what next VW wanting dosh for the Kombi reference...
and Kraft Corporation wanting their cut for the Vegemite namecheck?
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
sued the ISP iiNet - and lost.
And established some precedent for ISPs not being liable for what is done over their networks, as I understand.
Much interest burbling, and possibly worthy of its own thread to avoid swamping others - though the title of this one might be appropriate.
philipmatthews
From: Christchurch
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 405
\m/
Is that a goat-throw?
Mark Easterbrook
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 206
I could hear AC/DC's drums, even with the full bulk of Mount Albert standing between my back fence and Western Springs. The must have some serious acoustic insulation on their practice room...
JP Hansen
From: Waitakere
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 152
One of Bon Scott's pre -AC/DC bands.
So Spinal Tap "The Originals / The New Originals / The Thamesmen" era it hurts.
Geoff Lealand
From: Univ of Waikato
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 833
instead of bringing in that ear-gratingly awful Geordie to replace him.
That ain't singing. It's gargling!
Thanks for all the helpful advice. I am packing my bag ;-)
Robbie Siataga
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 118
I'd been blagged backstage to see my buddies, and the headliners didn't really make much sense to me from the side of the stage?
drunk all their rider by then huh :)
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
I want some reassurance that Robbie is not Robbery..
Zippy Gonzales
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 163
I'm damned if I can see the point of musichy.pe
I've got a gut feeling on this one. It's looks as if they're trying to bring back greater demand for EPs. Back to what Flying Nun did best.
No-one sells concept albums any more since the maximum length of music went from 45 minutes on LP to 80 minutes on CD. People are also buying songs digitally not albums. Sitting down to compose an 80 minute classic is a lot more daunting than one song, but you can't expect every song to be bread and butter. An EP, a four song combo might allow artists to explore more spontaneously whilst trusting the listeners to up the sales.
Sacha
From: Ak
Since: May 2008
Posts: 5316
So it's aggregation at the product end like albums were, just at a more currently marketable level?
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