I just think these discussion boards (especially ones that require registration) are a bit like mouthing off in the pub or building site. Maybe the old saying about sticks and stones should make a comeback?

and dude, eyebrow trim. Especially if you going to do the backlit extreme closeup.

damn good bit of publicity for the bereft wee flower is this whole schmozzle.

Given the fate of Joel Hayward, I think Mr. Clydesdale's should fall on his knees and thank God he still has job, especially as his work is more explicitly political than Mr. Hayward's work.

Couldn't agree more. There's too much noise in the Clydesdale story. The issue is simple. He?

His track record on Chinese & Indian immigrants is rather telling.

Looks like Massey is really interested in immigration, so Clydesdale might be trying to be relevant in the context of Massey?

Immigration?

Whilst we are at it, we should ignore Clydesdale as well. He is another obvious self-promoter. If he has done some serious research, he should try to get it?

Of course, given that I've never heard of either of those sites – ever – I?

meh. julia is what, "pop-classical"?

Popsical?

Sweet and syrupy, but leaves you feeling cold and sticky afterwards?

faux academic?

Given the way that McMassey treats its real academics (ask Peter Cullen or the AUS), I'm not surprised that parasites who go through the motions and promote themselves first can do?

Does he do work for AUS?

No, the AUS have their own employment lawyer, but it's always reassuring to have a Plan B just in case. I have a former colleague who said that he never really understood Dilbert until he started working for Massey. That sort of thing is?

Sayin'.

http://mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae10_2_5.pdf

Chinese Treaties in the wake of the Opium Wars are known as Unequal Treaties, which I thought might have been worth a mention. Instead Clydesdale states it's the incompatable values of the Chinese, not the unequal treaties that?

Re: My direction in the shoot – there was none.

df.

Supportive of what exactly, Clydedale himself, academic freedom, or his findings?
No-one has supported his findings.

Clydesdale did have it peer reviewed and publicised/publish inspite of negitive peer review, that is quite astonishing.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4573819a11.html?

Of course. You don't need a phd to see that. The question is why ?

Brownbashing and muckraking in a election?

**__What the article doesnt mention is that Glyn copied the thread into a PDF, edited it so that it looked like Will Edmond was making posts saying he was going to spike underaged girls drinks so they could be raped at his gigs, and then sent it?

Shouldn't we challenge that state of affairs?

Shame on people for labelling someone a racist just for stating the facts.

Shouldn't we challenge that state of affairs?

We're all about the challenges bro so I'm gonna challenge your state of affairs and your ' nothing to offer' fact.

Everyone has worth and?

It seems if anyone criticises anyone Polynesian they get lambbasted in the public arena.

It's okay for you to insult British descendants and accuse us of things our ancestors did, but look at it another way:

Everyone is an invidivual. People vary a?

George Bernard Shaw.

The only data I recall being discussed was how Clydesdale counted 15yr olds as Skilled Labour, which they clearly aren't?

Everyone is an invidivual.

European immigrants don't do that.

Good luck getting people to go trip-trapping over your bridge there, Simon.

we see ourselves as the continuation of a stream of consciousness that stretches back millenia

The Maori call that Te Taura Tangata, the Great Rope of Man. The collective consciousness. I like the thought of that, very much.

With all the people that move to South Auckland and sit around?

and lets not forget strengthening your genepool as well

It seems if anyone criticises anyone Polynesian they get lambbasted in the public arena.

yeah of course. Especially if they use pseudo science, flawed statistics and an obvious cultural bias to do it.

**__It's?

...but alas, stupid is as stupid does. Kudos for having the nuts to put his views?

I think that was Clydesdale's point.

Thanks for the confirmation.

It is bad for the country to import thousands of bludgers.?

I am not a racist.

Many of you on this forum are decying Clydesdale as being racist, however, a country that wants to have a good economy should limit the amount of people moving here to bludge.

If they plan to work, then great.

You're all?

The main issue with Clydesdale is that he hasn't done that. He doesn't back himself with facts.

The Beatles don't cut it as facts, and his facts have failed all three NZ academic reviews!

This is not a racial issue, stop making it one dub.

Wasn't Clydesdale originally talking about Polynesian immigrants?

Sounds like a racial issue to me.

**I think that was Clydesdale's point.

It should be you have to have skills to offer, or you can stay where?

Cheyenne: I just heard about this issue today when Kim Hill interviewed him on National Radio. However, do I need to prove to you there are lots of unemployed people, gangs and drug-abusers in South Auckland? If so, I can probably dig up some proof. I thought it?

Saved from cannibalism ? Oh please...you didnt save anyone?

Silly that people are calling him a racist. I am sure his criteria for who should be allowed to move here is not a race-based criteria. No one's that daft anymore.

You'd hope not, but the clue is that he has chosen to focus purely on Pacific migrants, not Asian?

Or are the Asian migrants on the dole too?

Dub – not a rich people's playground, just a healthy economy.

So you've fallen for relativism. Kant's theory of Universal Law says that if?

Not sure if i agree with that but let me guess... Kant was an academically entrenched euro guy ? Things look different from the ivory towers across?

With Pacific immigration, I agree that the issue's too big to be?

http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/A152478B-1AE1-437D-BF5A-7EB941A0AC7D/0/58522SNZlayoutffWEB.pdf

In short it says workforce participation for Pacific Islanders is higher than that of Poms (of working age).
62.4% Poms working in NZ
63.2% PIs working in NZ
70.1% NZs working in NZ

This is why Clydesdale has shot himself in the?

While you spout anti-racist rhetoric, you insist on, respectively, calling one of the greatest European thinkers of the last millenium some academically entrenched Euro guy, and Poms.

Should we be calling Samoans Fobs? I don't talk like that, why do you?

I wonder who the racists are?

Sorry, I meant at the end... and calling the English Poms.

I am not a Pom any way. I was born here. so were my last five generations.?

Ixnay on feeding the olltray, people.

he appears to have no knowledge of scientific method

Matthew Arnold called economics "the dismal science" because of its materialistic reductionism, but I feel that the label is more appropriate because the scientific methodology is dismal.

From what I gather, Clydesdale is not unique in his ineptitude and airy dismissal?

"My Ph.D thesis is about Stephen King's influence on Shakespeare"?

Bah! Everyone knows that Shakespeare based The Tempest on Forbidden Planet.

Funnily enough I did a Massey University extramural course a couple of?

Massey University have employed such a fellow as a senior lecturer?

Sadly, yes. According to an acquantaince (no, for legal reasons related or not – probably not – to a financial settlement, that person is most definitely not me, oh no), one HoD gave a presentation to faculty, er, sorry,?

Worse than that — Clydesdale's quote was actually "... too many black notes"

Reminds me of an episode of The Goodies – Tim, Bill and Graeme toured apartheid-era South Africa and came across a pianist – all of the keys on the piano were segregated, black keys on the left,?

Let go of your precious racial persecution complex, you racist.

I have worked, lived and been friends with many people of many races, creeds, ages and orientations; so can't be called prejudiced.

Oh give me a break, Simon. Your general tone would suggest otherwise but for what its worth, try?

You people ban anyone saying anything critical of Polynesians,?

too many black notes", i.e. musical notes that are failing to contribute to New Zealand's economic growth.

Well-spotted. And his report (now that I've forced myself to read most of it and the associated peer reviews) is?

Elvis was a hero to most but he never meant shit to me...

I heard they apologised for it years later; realised they were too harsh on him.

You fellas havea good time insulting white people while attacking them for daring to challenge brown people.

Peace out.

PS – if you were the colonisers, I think?

Fix up, look sharp

Lockwood Smith is in fact a Thunderbirds puppet?

further to your theory lockwood used to teach english at my school some 30 years ago and he looked pretty much the same then, no a hair on his head moved then and hasn't seemed to move since. Suspicious to say the?

" think that this shows the worst aspect of political correctness: the attempt to kill an argument or discussion by the use of labelling, rather than attempting to engage in debate. Having people write?

who ever suggested we not have a variety of cultures on our country? It's not the same thing to say that we should have a right to choose who comes into the?

So, we're not treating all people from all countries fairly: we're being?

Is that the nude puppet sex scene?

Neighsayer doesn't win the argument.

What do you think, that it's fair we have a quota of Pacific Islanders coming in, even to the detriment of their own countries, who lose workers and customers because of the amount of people moving to NZ?

The Them and Us argument?

We ask, "What skills do you have?" If we don't need their skills, we already know there is no work for them here, then we say, "No thanks."

Doesn't the United States do that?

The US also says "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe?

We allow many refugees in, but are biased in favour of Pacific people.

Why?

1. Multiculturalism told people to go back to their heritage. I am not part of this scene. I rejected my Christian upbringing and reject the idea that I have to do anything because it is my culture to do so.

2. The PC Thought Police?

Hassling someone for what race they were born into is disgusting, and in fact, is racism. And you think it is okay.

hahaha...bro unlike you, i don't buy into your?

1. When OJ Simpson went to trial for the murder of his ex-wife, women's rights activists got into bed with the Civil Rights movement in brandishing the trial as an attack on a role-model for you black men, rather than calling it justice?

Why?

...cos we're so damn good looking :)

It's not a Western idea.

Hypothetically:

If we?

hypothetically...

How could i have been so ignorant and racist. You're absolutely right. The drop in living standards, increased crime and an economic downturn is solely because polynesians have been migrating here for the?

...methinks thou protesteth too much

My thoughts too. He sure plays the victim card pretty heavily too. "PC Thought Police" and all that – then the terrible, terrible treatment of Holocaust deniers, then "some of my best friends are...", "look, there are worse people on Kiwiblog", silent majority versus lazy?

Both hilarious and chillingly accurate.

You know what really scares me? The fact that I understand that gibberish.

"You guys are great. I have been debating with people at http://www.publicaddress.net/system/topic,1152,hard_news_debating_clydesdale.sm?p=53197 and they?re scarily ignorant.
You speak of how you get labelled as soon as you try to open a?

Someone's making a lot of money out of propagating this myth that brown/black people are being persecuted.

I'd like to know where my cheque is, in that case.

Your analysis of racially charged events in the USA is really excellent, though. So nuanced. So historically accurate. And with a soupcon?

I'd like to know where my cheque is, in that case.

Maybe you'll get a T-shirt. You know, "I joined the PC Thought Police and did they give me a spiffy black uniform with shiny shiny leather boots and whip? Nooooo – all I got was this lousy T-shirt"

Maybe?

Just so you guys know, there is a mass of people who think what I think ...
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/05/pacific_island_immigration.html#comment-453647
Au revoir

Ha. Choice! You accidentally linked to your own post there, whining about being picked on here:

freethought (3) +0 Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 11:35 am
You guys are great.?

And

Entry under quotas

People from the Pacific Islands continued to enter and stay in New Zealand during the late?

By the way, if you ever want to feel depressed about being a?

It opened my eyes.

... is usually code for "It articulated and therefore confirmed my paranoia!"

One of my fave lectures once said "I have a PhD in economics, so you don't have too."

He got his PhD in 2002, but sites presentations from 1991. The reason may be that the co-presenter in 1991 is held in high regard? His co-presenter sites peer reviewed publications from?

One of my fave lectures once said "I have a PhD in economics, so you don't have too."

Reading aerospace engineer Ben Rich's autobiography some years ago (__Skunk Works__ nice read, can't say that much about really classified projects, but a lot of interesting anecdotes and views on the business),?

It appears in a brief paragraph where he doubts that employers could be racist if it hurt the success of their business. The argument is not stated clearly enough for me to actually?

My complaints about the Thought Police began with Kim Hill interrupting Clydesdale and not letting him make his point, because it was so 'offensive' and controversial.

I get that his report has flaws, however, a lot of people have attacked him primarily for criticising the?

I would have done something else rather than chat to you guys all weekend.

Funny to accuse someone of not handling a debate, when that person has joined a discussion forum and argued with everyone else on it.

Jeez, I must be a pussy.

But they liked the thrust of the arguments he put forward. Hmmm

The thing that makes you so mad

...etc.

My, what fantastic mind-reading powers you have. Why haven't you made a fortune on the stock market with such skill?

Just you you all know,

Defensive, aren't we, diddums?

I get that this is the Anti-Clydesdale forum

Labelling? Surely not.

If I?

"Your statement that Pacific unemployment is only 5% is proof that Pacific Islanders don't need special treatment. Maybe we should have a quota for bringing English people here instead. It sounds like they need more help, if what you?

__Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I?

From this can you see that Clydesdales call to stop PI immigration is baseless?

Just to show that I'm even-handed in my cruelty, I must say, Shep, that you are wrong and you should have included the first person possessive apostrophe.

Ahem:

Clydesdale's

If we supported too many people financially who were unable to repay us, or worse, who turned to crime thus making our standard of living worse, it would be a bad idea.

So...You have a sick baby. Coughing its little lungs out, the poor wee bairn is taken to hospital,?

I call for a limit on the apostrophe and a pox upon the semicolon.

For an explanation of the Thought Police comment, for those who will never ever read Bruce's book: there is a scary movement in the world in which people no longer restrict being offended to what a person says or writes: they get offended by what they were thinking.

As opposed?

I call for a limit on the apostrophe and a pox upon the semicolon.

Is there some recent explosion in usage that I've missed?

I call for a limit on the apostrophe and a pox upon the semicolon.

You can have my semicolons when you prise them from my cold, dead hands.

"You can have my semicolons; when you prise them from my cold, dead hands' "

Russell surely you meant to say:

"You can have my semicolons; when you prise them from my cold, dead hands'

But that would simply have been gratuitous.

Priceless.

What is with the meaningless twaddle about the Beatles and long walks on the beach.....

I?

He acknowledges that Clydesdale's paper is "dodgy", but complains at great length about Tim Pankhurst being grilled about it, and decries the ad hominen attacks on Clydesdale.

The latter point is a little ironic given the amount of such abuse du Fresne?

in an ideal world an eager-beaver researcher would be assigned to assess the credibility of every academic paper submitted for publication

Well, in the 'ideal world', serious academic papers are submitted to a lengthy process of peer-review before they are considered worthy of publication. If they manage to survive that,?

[...] all I got was this T-shirt.
Maybe that could be shortened a bit.

So, like a tank-top then?

Then, to abbreviate the rest of the message to fit the available space... Oh dear. I'm thinking... a tank-top of translucent material, with a message of just two letters:
"P" on?

"It's scary. New Zealand's future growth depends on its ability to create new products and production processes. We're going to have a large proportion of the population without the educational requirements to create that."
in http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4553798a6000.html

The same article states: "In 2006, 265,974 people, or 6.9 per cent?

Whether Clydesdale is right or wrong, he may say what he likes.

Free speech with the condition that one does not offend is?

Jon Stewart said on C4 last week: "You can't criticise Israel's foreign policy and still get elected president."

If he was a Kiwi he may have said, "You can't criticise Pacific Islanders without being personally attacked."

Well if you think that, you haven't watched Jon Stewart enough. He would have?

I think the term – "Publish & be damned" is more apt for Clydesdale. If you want freedom you have to accept that others have?

I'm yet to hear of anyone endorsing his academic findings, his right to draw his own conclusions sure, but we're back to academic rigour again.

How about these people?

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=491684

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/05/pc_bullies_smot.php

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/06/economist_stand_1.php

It's a pity so many people will not listen to a challenge.

Simon, you just don't seem to be listening. In a fair context, I'll certainly defend your right to say whatever you like. However that brings you no automatic right to be taken seriously unless you meet certain standards?

Again there is no academic rigour to it, but rather it is showing itself for what it is.

With friends like that, ....

If anyone can answer that I'ld be greatly appreciated.

DeepRed – Do you keep an eye on those websites?
I've not kept up with the various NZ outfits but fear?

DeepRed – Do you keep an eye on those websites?
I've not kept up with the various NZ outfits but fear their rise as times get harder.

Not on a regular basis, nor would I want to. It's largely a case of "we read the dirty stuff, so you don't?

Informed debate about immigration would be welcome. That's a challenge I'm sure others here are more than happy to take on.

Unfortunately Clydesdale's paper is not a worthwhile starting point for such a discussion. While Kim Hill's tone and overtly hostile questioning no doubt flustered Clydesdale, she showed that he?

Unfortunately Clydesdale's paper is not a worthwhile starting point for such a discussion.

I kind of agree – but then I read your comprehensive, lucid post. Brilliant inadvertent counter-example, methinks.

I'm shocked he's presenting at all, but I suppose the Airfare and hotel were already paid for & it is Brazil after all.