Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: So far from trivial

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  • Matthew Poole,

    and she might have got name suppression, but equally she might not have.

    The courts are very liberal with name suppression for victims, and the (non-tabloid) media are pretty good about respecting their privacy even when there's no suppression.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3889 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    - The money was for the "loss of income and distress". Excuse me but several broken bones resulting from a vicious assault and a subsequent breakdown qualify as a bit more than distress.

    Quite.

    If you offered me $100K not to complain about belting me in the face, I might consider it a painful way to pay down the ol' mortgage.

    $100K to snap my spine repeatedly? No thanks. Anyone who thinks this is overblown, well, put your hands up. Would you take $100K to have your back broken in four places?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    the reason why action can be taken without a complaint for domestic violence is around issues of intimidation of the victim, isn't it?

    That's part of it. It was a change in police policy in the early 1990s to always arrest the offender (where it was immediately clear who the offender was) when they attend a domestic violence situation.

    It's not the only reason for it though:

    'Old Style' police officers were typically less likely to arrest in such an incident, younger, 'new style' police officers were more likely. The police was going through a culture of change that was taking time to make it through to the older cops. It removed that as a problem, by telling police they always had to arrest the offender, even if the victim wasn't going to complain.

    More importantly though it was a practical purpose. It got the offender out of the house for 24 hours at least, it gave them an opportunity to get Victim Support, Womens Refuge, family, neighbours, friends etc involved. And yes, the removal of the possible intimidation of the offender was a big part of that.

    I suspect it lead to more prosecutions, but probably less prosections as a percentage of arrests. It's still hard to prosecute when the only witness won't give evidence.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Craig,

    It's hardly "all the medias fault."

    I didn't say it was, you'll note I specifically said "the media and the consumers of that media" You're right, the media publishes what it thinks the public wants to hear, but it's a two-way street that, equally the public wants what its used to being given. Just because some people get off on the prurient details of someone's life - or death - doesn't actually mean the media should provide it. And the fact that this whole episode has pushed stories that might arguably be more important off the news or well down the list is just inexcusable.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    which I have noticed danielle has slipped into conversation before hand

    Well, as I said earlier, maybe my discomfort with the term is solely 'on me', as it were. I do tend to remember historical facts like that. (I also know heaps about the history of underwear, but no one talks about bras very much around here. :) )

    *However*, even if it's just me, and it's actually a lovely evocative broadly defined metaphor which doesn't really mean specific things, I do think said metaphor is very poorly used in this particular thread, since no one here appears to be doing what you say they're doing, robbery - baying for extra-judicial punishment in a mob. It's annoying to have this discussion escalated to that level.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3623 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    it's not just you danielle

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 468 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    It was a change in police policy in the early 1990s to always arrest the offender (where it was immediately clear who the offender was) when they attend a domestic violence situation.
    ...
    More importantly though it was a practical purpose. It got the offender out of the house for 24 hours at least

    These days, though, you can insert "male" in place of "offender". Plenty of anecdotes out there from guys who spent a night in the cells after being attacked by their female partner. It's going to take another big culture change before "offender" is the appropriate word to use.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3889 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Plenty of anecdotes out there from guys who spent a night in the cells after being attacked by their female partner.

    Funny you should say that - Ross over in Kiwiblogland, in the tui thread, is suggesting Veitch might have been the assaulted party & wondering why we're not villifying the aggressive woman in the wheelchair.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2073 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    $100K to snap my spine repeatedly? No thanks. Anyone who thinks this is overblown, well, put your hands up. Would you take $100K to have your back broken in four places?

    Having read 8 pages of comments, I'm not sure how I feel about telling her what she should have done in the situation she found herself in.

    Personally I've never been in a situation ever like what she was in, and I'm unlikely to in my life. Lucky me.

    People have said that society has an interest in him facing criminal proceedings. Yes that's true it does. But is that her responsibility? I'm often amazed at what some women go through to try and prevent a violent person from doing what they did to them, to someone else.

    Personally, no, if I was offered that deal before having my back broken, I wouldn't take it, probably most people wouldn't. But she wasn't offered that before the assault, she was offered it afterwards. Maybe she feels comfortable and didn't want more? Maybe she's happy with what he's done since with counselling and his life, I don't know. I'd imagine that she probably could have gotten more - I read someone that he earns over $400K, an income that she could have wrecked with a few words.

    I have no sympathy for him. I was interested in what he had to say until he said "I have no excuses, except..."

    Her? She was assaulted by her recent boyfriend and had her back broken. If she's been further screwed afterwards by some hush deal, and coerced into being quiet, then that'll piss me off more. If she's happy with what she got, and happy not to complain to the police, up to her.

    I hope the police take a good look at it and see if they can get a conviction, with her assistance or not.

    After what she's been through, I can't see it part of her job to do anything further if she doesn't want to.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    These days, though, you can insert "male" in place of "offender". Plenty of anecdotes out there from guys who spent a night in the cells after being attacked by their female partner. It's going to take another big culture change before "offender" is the appropriate word to use.

    Yes. It would be fair that it's probably the police as an organisation moving into the 1970s about 20 years late. Female assaults male, or domestic violence between same sex partners is still very hit/miss as to whether its dealt with well.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    since no one here appears to be doing what you say they're doing, robbery

    It wasn't just me, I noted it in support of a comment by sue, and ian put it more strongly, plus comments from a couple of others.
    The first page of this thread had a good swag of anger attached, "nasty piece of work" etc, and he may well be, but none of us would know that for sure yet would we. We've just got media coverage and conjecture on a partial story. I hoped we'd be above that, but didn't really believe we would be.
    For me this story reads as very very sad, something bad has gone on for all parties involved.

    noted on the underwear too, I shall try to give you openings in future to show you're knowledge on the history and development of "the clothing we shall not mention"

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Would you take $100K to have your back broken in four places?

    Not the question. Having had your back broken in four places would you prefer:

    * $100,000; or
    * this

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    These days, though, you can insert "male" in place of "offender". Plenty of anecdotes out there from guys who spent a night in the cells after being attacked by their female partner. It's going to take another big culture change before "offender" is the appropriate word to use.

    I think there is a problem there. I have certain knowledge of one case (to the point where I gave evidence in Family Court) and suspicions about another where male-assaults-female was not what happened.

    It's hard to blame the police, because they were doing what is the right thing in the majority of cases in taking the complainant at her word, but it's horrible for the man involved.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • michael o'brien,

    $100K to snap my spine repeatedly?


    um... isn't that just a bit emotive.....?

    Since Nov 2006 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    Whispers here are that the Dompost haven’t finished yet. Not by a long shot.

    Yes. I heard there's more tomorrow.

    I was saying yesterday to a mate that the Dom will treat this story like they did with Tuku Morgan's undies - they'll drip-feed the story bit by bit for all it's worth.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 565 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Ross over in Kiwiblogland, in the tui thread, is suggesting Veitch might have been the assaulted party & wondering why we're not villifying the aggressive woman in the wheelchair.

    Nobody has it coming to end up in a wheelchair. If he's strong enough to break her back, he's strong enough to restrain her without causing serious, long-term injuries.

    As pissed off as I get with the suggestion that men have no right to defend themselves if their female partner attacks, it's impossible to excuse Veitch's actions in any circumstances.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3889 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    We've just got media coverage and conjecture on a partial story. I hoped we'd be above that, but didn't really believe we would be.

    I tried to make my reasoning on this clear in the original post. Fairfax would not have waded in without a clear and legally robust basis for its stories. If the original story had been wrong, it would have attracted a swift denial followed by the threat of legal action. The consequence would have been a huge lawsuit.

    The Herald also has fairly detailed corroboration from workmates.

    So saying "we don't know what happened" just doesn't wash. I don't really care what the emotional circumstances were, or what Veitch's partner might have said on the night in question. Nothing excuses or justifies that kind of assault.

    C'mon Rob, hit me with something that might conceivably be a viable other side of the story.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Oh, and also: there's a reason this has become trial-by-media.

    It's because there wasn't a trial-by-justice-system.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    The very definition of villainy is kicking someone when they're down.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2917 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard,

    I do think said metaphor is very poorly used in this particular thread

    That happens all the time, especially with the term "Nazi": the degrading of a word with specific historical associations to the point where those who bring up those specific historical meanings in an attempt to challenge the speaker's hyperbole are put down for overreacting. As one example, over on Poneke's blog there was a post about smoking in public spaces and someone brought out the old line about "Anti-smoking Nazis". I made an admittedly flippant comment about how actually it wasn't the Nazis who tried to stop people being killed by poisonous gases, and someone snapped back with "Oh, everyone knows that 'Nazi' just means a PC busybody who wants to tell other people what to do".

    So now you know. Nothing to do with Hitler, then.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1039 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    It's hard to blame the police, because they were doing what is the right thing in the majority of cases in taking the complainant at her word, but it's horrible for the man involved.

    But is it the right thing in the majority of cases? There's very solid empirical evidence that domestic violence isn't even close to a one-way street.
    Assuming the stats are right that it's about 50:50 on who starts it, and more than one study has said that it's around that level, it's not unreasonable to believe that quite a few DV incidents that end up with him spending the night behind bars start with her hitting him.

    In fact (hazy recollections and my Google foo isn't quite helping me right now) didn't the Dunedin Longitudinal Study show that women are about as likely to be physically violent toward their partner as men are?

    It's not OK for either side! Which is something that some people lose sight of in their rush to vilify men who do.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3889 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    a little light bashing can get out of hand

    A truly wonderful Rowan Atkinson clip before Mr Bean turned him into half the comedian he was. The whole video that it's from is great, there's a truly wonderful skit where he's welcoming people into hell. Highly recommended.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    There's very solid empirical evidence that domestic violence isn't even close to a one-way street.
    Assuming the stats are right that it's about 50:50 on who starts it, and more than one study has said that it's around that level, it's not unreasonable to believe that quite a few DV incidents that end up with him spending the night behind bars start with her hitting him.

    Do you have links for that?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    In fact (hazy recollections and my Google foo isn't quite helping me right now) didn't the Dunedin Longitudinal Study show that women are about as likely to be physically violent toward their partner as men are?

    Victims of a male perpetrator's violence are more likely to feel that their life is in danger than victims of female-perpetrated violence.

    Does the "she started it" defence really wash if the male is ultimately more violent, and more life-threatening ?

    I'm sure it's often difficult to determine the exact course of events in a domestic violence case. The people who work in this area indicate that domestic violence is overwhelmingly male-perpetrated, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 446 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    BTW, folks just as a sidebar (and not having read, let alone processed over 170 comments, am I the only person who thinks the folks at the Herald who allowed today's front page headline to see print should be suspended for a week without pay - at least.

    "'What DID you do to her, Tony?' (caps in original)

    Sick. Fucks. I've had raw tofu with more taste, and worn hot pants with more class.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

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