But I don't get the 'man' thing – surely everyone should be able to do these things?

(except maybe 'bleed?

the idea of man as a leader, able to give directions and take charge if needed

Aw, that's so sweet.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,?

But I don't get the 'man' thing – surely everyone should be able to do these things?

and

the idea of man as a leader, able to give directions and take charge if needed

Aw, that's so sweet.

Makes me think I need to repeat this para:

"Man", as I?

Outdoors

• Perform CPR

Given that most mechanics work indoors, I'm not sure what makes this an outdoor skill.

I can see it now. A mechanic accidentally electrocutes himself. Mechanics cluster around him, unsure what to do. One bright spark utters the lifesaving words: "Quick! Drag him outside so we?

Know the fastest distance between two points (in their home town)

And if you could just add: ...and be prepared to ask for directions if you get it wrong!

]]> Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:54:52 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115567#post115567 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115567#post115567 According to that list I'm only 80% manly :( but I plan never to bleed brakes or change an oil filter in my life. Happy for my local garage to do that and I'll gladly pay them.

But surely there's only one over-riding thing you you need to know to?

]]> Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:56:10 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115568#post115568 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115568#post115568 paddle a canoe" thing ]]> Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:56:25 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115569#post115569 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115569#post115569

Perform CPR

Given that most mechanics work indoors, I'm not sure what makes this an outdoor skill.

It just fitted better there.

1. Don't be a dick

Actually I rather all humans learned that one

]]> Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:57:34 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115571#post115571 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115571#post115571 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:01:07 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115572#post115572 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/field-theory-25-things-you-need-to-be-a-man/?p=115572#post115572

This quote from Robert Heinlein seems . . . well, not relevent, but close:

This explains why my googling Douglas Adams for the same did not work.

Makes me think I need to repeat this para:

Yeah, I get that. But oddly, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, leadership/organisation has always seemed a female trait to me. In that everybody mills about mooing until the Decider in the group goes 'screw this, here's what?

If you want something done properly, you get a woman to do it.

Doing stuff is work and being with friends is relaxing.

I note that no food-gathering, gardening, cultivation or other agricultural-type skills are included to get the manly through a potential apocalypse...

# Use a torque wrench

WTFs a torque wrench and when should it be used?

WTFs a torque wrench and when should it be used?

It's a wrench with a dial/gauge on it that lets you know how much force you're applying when you're tightening a bolt. Useful for work on engines, I'm told, where you don't want to over- or under-tighten.

John Muir of?

Torque wrench is used to apply correct pressures after replacing ahead gasket. If you tighten too much can split the gasket!

I didn't know either Don (though I assumed I'd find out when I got to that bit)

Perhaps having answers is a manly thing? Or perhaps the ability to?

How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive; A Manual of Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot.

Step 1: Buy a Toyota.
Step 2: Convert Volkswagen into quirky bar/gazebo/chicken coop.

In any case, starting today I am going to go through the list of 25 things set down in Popular Mechanics, and I am going to master all of them.

Hadyn, I am hiring a trailer this weekend if you'd like to try out number 2 on the list?

Me? I skate with an all-womens roller-derby league and use a pseudonym on occasion. I suspect this disqualifies me from any pretence of manliness.

The second time I ended up facing the wrong way against?

Again, I'm not insinuating that people of the inwards-genital persuasion can't do this ... just observing that I feel strong and manly when I've had opportunity to prove that I can lift a tyre, use a jack, remove the?

Surely changing a car tyre has got to be in there?

You know what, you're right. Consider it added.

Dude, you read "Popular Mechanics" – that's pretty freakin' manly.

I read the occasional link that comes through my science blog feeds – that's much much less manly

Hadyn, I am?

I love fishing, and it's important to be able to prepare those scaley little guys for eating if you're going to drag them out of their environment?

That was before I failed the torque wrench test (!= monkey wrench then?).

Yrs, Ms Nicola Hornby

Plus, sports blogging has to be pretty manly, would you say Hadyn?

I suppose, it doesn't really involve a lot of "doing stuff" though (except maybe eating chips)

Then you pull out your fileting knive and sharpen?

Plus, sports blogging has to be pretty manly, would you say Hadyn?

I suppose, it doesn't really involve a lot of "doing stuff" though (except maybe eating chips)

And drinking whisky. Very manly.

manliness is all about doing, rather than being. So you can't "be a man"

You have to "do a man"? :)

giving up...

– open a bottle of wine using a corkscrew

Or given the "dismantle a gun" type things perhaps "open a beer bottle without an opener" would be more that line.

Maybe that's more for the list "25 things a gentleman should be able to?

How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive; A Manual of Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot.

Step 1: Buy a Toyota.
Step 2: Convert Volkswagen into quirky bar/gazebo/chicken coop.

If you call that living ... :)

Probably says a lot that I loved the book and idolised the cars, then proceeded?

As a newish parent I'm going to?

I'm still practicing "maneuvering a car out of a skid".

Living in Canada, I've had the, ahem, the occasional opportunity to practice this over winter.

If anyone has any advances on: "take foot off accelerator, point wheel in direction you'd ideally be going, resist urge to slam on brakes really?

If anyone has any advances on: "take foot off accelerator, point wheel in direction you'd ideally be going, resist urge to slam on brakes really hard, hope for the best" ... well, I'm all ears.

When I was a little younger, I had the good fortune to roll a car?

You have to "do a man"? :)

Don't knock it until you've tried it...

Thinking about alternate lists, there could also be:

25 things a woman should be able to do

1. Resist the urge to smack the author of lists like this in the head with a frozen leg?

I have never been more convinced of my own utter uselessness.

If it helps, Danielle, we could make that list of 'things a lady should be able to do', and then gleefully celebrate not being able to do any of them.

and also for getting a car unstuck.

If anyone has any advances on: "take foot off accelerator, point wheel in direction you'd ideally be going, resist urge to slam on brakes really hard, hope for the best" ... well, I'm all ears.

Works in a rear wheel drive. In a front wheel drive you may actually have?

it is the avoidance of skid-able situations that is the skill it pays to have

A pity that concise prose is not on the list. Oh well, one less item for me to fail.

welding, fibreglass work, attacking something with a gas torch, spray painting

– Do not weld fibreglass
– Do not use a gas torch whilst spray painting

Spelling Hemingway properly...

He's the man!

Of course, the most manly thing is to pulp your thumb with a hammer or lacerate body parts with a saw. Extra points if you swear, grunt a few times and bandage it with a poultice of blood soaked sawdust before returning to what you're doing.

My partner put a?

If it helps, Danielle, we could make that list of 'things a lady should be able to do', and then gleefully celebrate not being able to do any of them.

I'm quite glad I don't know how to make those delicate looking cucumber or watercress sandwiches.
They creep me out.?

My partner put a concrete drill through his upper arm. How manly is that?

I'm not even sure how that's possible.

My partner put a concrete drill through his upper arm. How manly is that?

Sounds more like a magic trick to me.

Locating the G-spot!

A much more valuable skill than most on?

Locating the G-spot!

Mate, I think you'll find that, on the whole, women are far better at this than men are.

Jack London

Oh yeah. Taming a wild wolf dog and all that tobogganing.

Man's work.

I would add: "Bury deceased family pets".

And come up with convincing lies about how Floppy Muffkins died, because you accidentally backed the trailer over it.

VERY surprised mending a fuse isn't anywhere on the lists.

Locating the G-spot!

Mate, I think you'll find that, on the whole, women are far better at this than men are.

Hence the need to hone your skills grasshopper. Become adept and the world is your oyster*

*results may vary.

VERY surprised mending a fuse isn't anywhere on the lists.

I did that a lot in our old place. The correct gauge wire for the fuse kept burning out so we bought thicker stuff. Maybe not the safest thing to do, but it felt good fixin' stuff.

Specialization is for insects.

I'd like my leaks repaired by a plumber and my tumour removed by a surgeon, thanks.

While in theory I could manage most things on?

Mate, I think you'll find that, on the whole, women are far better at this than men are.

I thought the G Spot was an urban legend — but what the hell do I know? It all sounds like the sexual equivalent of taking the kids to the mall for?

kill a rat with a spade

I killed one with a broom, does that count?

Even your sweetheart potentially has one....so I respectfully suggest you put some time aside for exploring; it may result in many good things

My head is really spinning now.

I killed a mouse with a can of beer, does that count?

My grandmother killed a mouse by jumping into the air screaming when she saw it. Upon returning to earth, she accidentally landed heavily on the scampering mouse, crushing it to death.

(I suppose that might be the most?

I killed a mouse with a can of beer, does that count?

MAAATE!!!

My partner put a concrete drill through his upper arm. How manly is that?

That...will take some beating.

His upper arm?? Was he holding it upside down or something?? And if so, why?

I killed one with a broom, does that count?

Did you use the thin, pointy end or the wide, bristly end?

I'm not saying it can't be found, but can you really call finding the G Spot a 'manly' skill if it's something women are consistently better at? It really doesn't belong on the list.

Well it's on my list and for me has made being a man a more, um,?

That...will take some beating.

His upper arm?? Was he holding it upside down or something?? And if so, why?

Okay. I really do need to get him to draw a diagram or something some time.

Partner used to run computer cable through office buildings. He was drilling a hole in?

I killed one with a broom, does that count?

Did you use the thin, pointy end or the wide, bristly end?

The bristly end, but it was a soft bristled broom which meant the thing was almost tickled to death.

He was drilling a hole in the ceiling above him, but access meant he couldn't drill up, he had to reach up through the access hole, and then drill down.

Ooooooh, yeah that's pretty manly. Actually... is it? The scar definitely is.

And may I just say that ignorance or disinterest in this matter is sooo last century. It's a win/win outcome for goodness sake.

Oh, I'm not pleading ignorance or disinterest at all. Just that my partner was finding her spot long before I came onto the scene. Definitely not saying?

While in theory I could manage most things on the list, I am happy in the knowledge that a chap can employ another chap to take care of the tedious business for him. Now be a dear and mix me another daiquiri, won't you?

Hillaire Belloc would surely approve...

"Lord?

I killed a mouse with a can of beer, does that count?

Mice just can't hold their liquor
But if it were Rheineck it would take four, maybe five cans. More so if said mouse ate a hearty lunch.
Would a stoned mouse get the mun cheese?

Know Gold Beer

Hemingway

Talk about the ultimate Shooting your mouth off
or was it to the forehead?

But he did have polydactyl cats!!

yrs
Quasimodo
Campanologist

* Hold one's own in a?

The scar is spectacular.

I'm faintly disappointed it wasn't one of those "doesn't everybody vacuum in the nude and accidentally fall on the nozzle at such an angle it gets stuck?" kind of stories. Better luck next time, I guess.

Jeez Craig, and here was me thinking you were a?

# Protect your computer

And build and upgrade it. My own machine is now into its 7th upgrade since 1996.

I have never been more convinced of my own utter uselessness.

If it helps, Danielle, we could make that list of 'things a lady should be able to do', and then gleefully celebrate not being able to do any of them.

Can we do that, please ? Funnily enough, thinking?

As a Wellingtonian I would add the following for a post earthquake situation – and this is for femmes and hommes:-

Have an eq kit,
Have an agreed rendezvous point and?

The scar is spectacular.

I would say it's not the fact that the drilled his own arm that makes him manly, anyone can do that (even me), but how he reacted once it happened.
One of the most "manly" things I ever saw was on TV. This guy was catching?

Not so much grace under pressure (nice Hemingway reference there) as nonchalance under extreme pain.

"yes, but if I don't get it I'm not a man , and can I buy a gun?"

As a Wellingtonian I would add the following for a post earthquake situation – and this is for femmes and hommes:-

In my case I should add: "and an eight-storey rope ladder in case both the lift & stairs are out".

Good man skill: Asking for "trade discount" at man shops.

?

there's still a couple left if you'd really like?

(Dont ask what we did with the other ones...)

there's still a couple left if you'd really like?

Thanks, but not particularly! There's a delightfully antiquated tobacconist/barbershop in Featherston St that sells it, and one of my esteemed chums brought some along to one of our recent chaps' nights out. We ended up at Hawthorn lounge, drinking Martinis and?

Well I learned to drink & I learned to smoke & I learned to tell a dirty joke.

If that's all there is then there's no?

__I look like a big man
But I've only got a little soul
I only got a little soul

Yeah, I wish I could?

Learn to shave properly

Shaving with one razor in each hand saves a lot of time. Not quite half, but almost. Laugh all you want, but it works out to at least 500 minutes per year. A full eight hours or so.

You could build something cool or [[http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin.html|go exploring for?

Surely changing a car tyre has got to be in there?

Chez nous, that's the primary application of the torque wrench.

(And when you change your tyres with the seasons, it quickly moves out of the realm of "manly event" and into that of "irritating chore, to be foisted if?

kill a rat with a spade

I killed one with a broom, does that count?

I've chased a bat outside with a squeezy-mop, because there wasn't a broom for me?

I have never been more convinced of my own utter uselessness.

If it helps, Danielle, we could make that list of 'things a lady should be able to?

I'm sure your definition of a "man shop" is very different from mine ("I am glad to say I have never seen a spade" and so forth). I have never sought nor expected a trade discount at any of the tailors, wine cellars or snuff purveyors that I frequent.

Um,?

The modern man in crisis thing is quite interesting. I'm not sure we can or should be reduced to lists of mundane stuff.

I do tend to think that most of these lists are compiled by the sort of people who'd have trouble holding down a job at FHM.

Things?

I have never sought nor expected a trade discount at any of the tailors, wine cellars or snuff purveyors that I frequent.

I'm no expert, but understood that discounts on "snuff" were strictly on a quantity basis. A certain Matthew Ridge could probably provide better information here...

I have never sought nor expected a trade discount at any of the tailors, wine cellars or snuff purveyors that I frequent.

Tom neglects to mention that the snuff was raspberry flavoured (seriously) and, in this gentleman's humble opinion, rather good.

I love how, at about 10pm, everyone started singing to each other.

On-line virtual karaoke is going to be The Next Big Thing. Get in quick so you can say you were first.

And most of these list seem to boild down to 'how to be a competently functioning adult (non-gender specific)'

That's true. I wonder whether I'm just reacting to the framing. If someone gave me a list of great books to read or a list of useful home maintenance tips I'd?

Personally I've found memorising the XVIII Sonnet, The Sun?

I always enjoyed the subtext to Rambo I

The Rambo 1 (or 'First Blood' for the pub quiz pedants out there) stuff is very interesting.

The original book on which the story is based is apparently much more explicit about the father/son-type relationship between Rambo and Trautman, and the training?

There [sic] actually lady-shops for gentleman.

So, anything to do with grooming, adornment or connoisseurship is automatically associated with the feminine?

This all signals that there are multiple connotations of "man": most of them, such as the Popular Mechanics one, equate "man" with "bloke"; FHM equates "man" with "lad"; and?

Jus' sayin'.

So, anything to do with grooming, adornment or connoisseurship is automatically associated with the feminine?

Who said anything about femininity? or masculinity for that matter. Ladies and gentleman, we are talking about gender accentuation. Its choreography.

The contrast with that point and the fact that Rambo has become almost the pinnacle of the traditional view of 'Manhood' probably doesn't need to be pointed out....

I think it has tended to be seen in the light of the sequels, where Rambo is a juggernaut cum polymath (okay,?

Heh. The old 'pretend to be sensitive in order to get laid' trick, eh?

In our household, we call that 'Fuck Me, I'm Sensitive', and it is regarded with huge suspicion. It's pretty funny to watch, though. :)

It's been done.

OK, any list which says 'resist the urge to?

I suspect, Tom, that you really conflate "man" with "fop".

I prefer the word "dandy". Though if preferring good clothes and fine wine to torque wrenches and backing trailers makes one a fop, here's to foppery!

Who said anything about femininity? or masculinity for that matter. Ladies and gentleman, we?

The Rambo 1 (or 'First Blood' for the pub quiz pedants out there)

Most F*&ed up "sequence" of titles ever.

1) First Blood
2) Rambo: First Blood Part II
3) Rambo 3

What happened to Rambo 2 ?

Actually, given the references to escaping from outraged husbands and general debauchery, I think Tom might be about to cross the line between fop and rake.

Why thank you, good sir.

OK, any list which says 'resist the urge to gossip' is totally bung.

I was more put off by "60. Create a Sacred Space"

If my sweetie has a G-spot (and a vagina to keep it in) I've got to give back that toaster oven and the complete run of homosexual agendas. Bugger, so to speak. And my female acquaintances are not that helpful.

Craig, he has one, you have one, we all potentially?

I was more put off by "60. Create a Sacred Space"

That might be where you use the torque wrench?

And everyone reckons I conduct warfare on rodents with a vigour that would cause a tear to spring to the corner of Herr Himmlers eye.

Stupid rodents, unexpectedly scurrying out from behind things and frighteneing people.

Oh and I haven't used?

Rake?? RAKE????

Sir, I demand satisfaction!

The I suggest you see Mr Savidge about your G-spot.

Rake?? RAKE????

Sir, I demand satisfaction!

The I suggest you see Mr Savidge about your G-spot.

Um no. I provide information, not stimulation.

Of course, three things are always manly:
1) Beards
2) Scars
3) Tattoos

Personal grooming and adornment?

Of course, three things are always manly:
1) Beards
2) Scars
3) Tattoos

4) Laughing at pain. Your own or?

I find a lot of the actual items on the Popular Mechanics list annoying – the baseline assumption that to be a man, you must be a driver, for instance.

Hear hear!

But let's not quibble about the individual points: what they're basically getting at is the idea that you?

I think Tom might be about to cross the line between fop and rake.

And 'tis but a small step from a rake to a roué ..

I find a lot of the actual items on the Popular Mechanics list annoying – the baseline assumption that to be a man, you must be a driver, for instance.

Isn't that in the original post? ah yes it is:

In fact, can the Popular Mechanics' version of a man?

Try it like this: Placemakers and Miter10 are gentleman-shop for Ladies.

I'm not entirely sure where your analogy is going. There's still the underlying assumption that if you're a man, you're interested in carpentry and suchlike, and that is an assumption that I reject. Quite apart from the fact that?

Something I'm detecting about this thread. Might we be getting confused about what it is to be a towny? rather than urban manly.

Well, exactly. The whole Popular Mechanics assumption is based upon a rural/suburban lifestyle, which Hadyn has countered by suggesting that urban survival is based upon negotiating a?

that you shouldn't necessarily be dependent on someone else to get stuff done for you.

And why should that not apply equally to women?

Indeed. I think it'd have been better phrased as "stuff you should be able to do", but then they wouldn't have been able to bring the?

a landscape of social interactions, cultural symbolism and economic interdependence

Because none of that happens in the suburbs where all we rubes live?

I'm going out on a limb here, and I'm going to say that cooking bacon and eggs is much more about "doing" than "creating".

I would describe cooking bacon and eggs in the same subject category of the ephemeral arts.

Meet Christo and Jeanne-Claude. The ephemeral artists.

I find a lot of the actual items on the Popular Mechanics list annoying – the baseline assumption?

Should "make your own spirits" be on the list then? :)

I doesn't put hair on your chest, and it will interfere with your sense of direction, so...

*hopes I haven't just derailed this into a discussion about arts vs crafts*

"Applied arts" more better than craft:)

Because none of that happens in the suburbs where all we rubes live?

I'm tempted to agree, but ... what I'm saying is that the emphasis of the suburban/rural Poular Mechanics model of handymanliness is on self-reliance and hands-on interaction with the physical world, rather than on interdependence and navigating?

filleting a fish and painting the walls rather than knowing which restaurant has the freshest fish and choosing an artwork to decorate your home.

Fish fins in Newtown, Wellington (order the Tarakihi when the wind blows from the westerly quarter)

Maori contemporary art. Say how about a Hemi Mcgregor, early?

I'm hardly going to start growing potatoes in my sink

Nonono. You clean them in the sink. You grow them in buckets. Or decent bags.

much of suburban life is (I am told)

I kinda wish that someone would spill the beans on you by saying that you grew up in Levin or something. Heh. :)

I understand what you're saying about the 'ideal form' of suburbanism (I think I just invented a word), but?

I kinda wish that someone would spill the beans on you by saying that you grew up in Levin or something. Heh. :)

I didn't grow up, I sprung fully-formed from an attic above Lock & Co Hatters in St James', the result of an occult experiment involving a fez, a?

Nonono. You clean them in the sink. You grow them in buckets. Or decent bags.

I neither grow nor clean potatoes. I order them as a side dish in the form of rosemary roast potatoes at Floriditas or pommes puree at Duke Carvell's No. 6 Swan Lane Emporium.

I didn't grow up, I sprung fully-formed from an attic above Lock & Co Hatters in St James', the result of an occult experiment involving a fez, a first edition of Les Fleurs du Mal and a quart of Tanqueray.

I'm a fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4xnVGxecIo

I neither grow nor clean potatoes. I order them as a side dish in the form of rosemary roast potatoes at Floriditas or pommes puree at Duke Carvell's No. 6 Swan Lane Emporium.

Completely off topic, but I got a slow cooker for my birthday and used it for the?

Suburbanites unite!

Dude, you should try lamb shanks with red wine in a slow cooker: unreal.

Suburbanites unite!

I think that's going on the must-try list for our slow cooker as well.

Side question: is "suburbane" a recognised adjective yet?

I prefer "suburbanality" myself.

How about "Suburbistan?"

neither grow nor clean potatoes

But what will you do when teh ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE comes? You'll wish you'd?

But what will you do when teh ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE comes? You'll wish you'd scrubbed some potatoes then, let me tell you.

I believe I shall dine rather finely on BRAAAAAIIINNS! Crumbed and lightly panfried with celeriac remoulade, of course.

Instead, this Star heralds the imminent emergence of Maitreya, the World Teacher, and the beginning phase of the total transformation of every aspect of our lives.

And there was me thinking it was a streetlight in that new subdivision?

Instead, this Star heralds the imminent emergence of Maitreya, the World Teacher, and the beginning phase of the total transformation of every aspect of our lives

No ordinary sun...

Dude, you should try lamb shanks with red wine in a slow cooker: unreal.

My girlfriend is a lamb shanks nut.

She doesn't read PAS and she's probably drooling anyway.

Good man skill: Asking for "trade discount" at man shops.

If you wore a tool belt – you know, the standard carpenter's codpiece – you'd be given the discount without having to flap your yap like a girl.

If you wore a tool belt – you know, the standard carpenter's codpiece – you'd be given the discount without having to flap your yap like a girl.

Don't make me drive my scooter over to your place!

you're an adult (yay!)
Can you deal with most domestic stuff – & reasonably forseen stuff, pertinent to your environment?
YES! = big tick.

NO- o dear. Learn to.

And *never* ask me to survive in a city!

If anyone has any advances on: "take foot off accelerator, point wheel in direction you'd ideally be going, resist urge to slam on brakes really hard, hope for the best" ... well, I'm all ears.

This may apply for rear wheel drive cars (depending on the cause of?

Quite apart from the fact that such barns of blokiness are normally situated in godawful suburbs, the only real reason that a gentleman need visit such a place is for picture hooks.

What if he needs a drywalling knife to temper some chocolate?

...some weird sort of recipe for an ideal 'lady'. The ones I can remember were : crafts, public speaking, walking, entertaining, self-presentation (which was how to put on make-up and have good posture) and out of left field – flying.

Same. And of all those things, which spoon to use,?

(What's a "car"?)

I'm joining the thread with much lateness, just to make the point that according to the list in the post I doubt I even qualify as a member of the species, let alone a bloke.

Giovanni, your Italian and you don't live with your mum. And, I have seen you?