Island Life by David Slack

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Island Life: Good on ya, Paula

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  • Graeme Edgeler,

    am I the only person crossing my fingers (and everything else) that Philip Field is going to hear the words 'guilty' thirty four times?

    Which charge is it you want him acquitted of?

    Is it okay if not is some of the "guilty"s are preceded by "not"s?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3009 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    8. National and ACT support slavery.

    I mean that. There are millions of slaves in the world today, and if you refuse to take concrete actions to help stop it when you have the choice, you're supporting that.

    Oh, balls. Seriously. Put up a workable and enforceable law that's actually going to do a damn thing to end slavery, and I'll grant the point. Until then, I'll suggest you take your seat because the theatre is about to start.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    8. National and ACT support slavery.

    I mean that. There are millions of slaves in the world today, and if you refuse to take concrete actions to help stop it when you have the choice, you're supporting that.

    This isn't so clear to me: how did Labour *not* have the choice? And besides, when the choice presented itself to ratify the UN convention on children, Labour chose not to.

    More generally, given the commonalities between National and Labour when it comes to the imperatives of free trade, overlooking human rights issues in making a pact with China, etc., I would hesitate to climb on that particular high horse.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Which charge is it you want him acquitted of?

    Is it okay if not is some of the "guilty"s are preceded by "not"s?

    I stand corrected. :) Let's hope he's found guilty on all thirty-five charges: twelve of bribery and corruption, and twenty three of willfully attempting to pervert the course of justice. Though I'm not looking forward to the deployment of the racist card, in which insensitive white people don't understand "the Pacific way" of doing things.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    It was a race againt Craig there and I was always going to come second.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Oh, balls. Seriously. Put up a workable and enforceable law that's actually going to do a damn thing to end slavery, and I'll grant the point

    No. National refused to engage with it by taking it to select committee, and that tell us all we need to know. They weren't interested in what was workable and enforceable - debating that was too much work.

    And you know, it had potential to interfere with the absolute sovereignty of free international trade... Slavery is bad, m'kay, but interfering with trade is a far worse sin.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    But thanks to the recent increase in funding, private schools are funded with 3x more public money per student, per year, than public schools.

    David - have you a reference for this? It's rather alarming.

    I think it is utterly disingenuous to pretend that the children of the rich are more deserving of government assistance than disabled children.

    Didn't funding for special needs increase by like $47m? I am just going off the Minister's talking points, but wasn't $2.5m of inequitable funding (funding to schools based on numbers, rather than need, in that more needy children at the wrong school missed out) cut and replaced by $50m in funding based on actual need, rather than the school zone their parents live in?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3009 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    More generally, given the commonalities between National and Labour when it comes to the imperatives of free trade, overlooking human rights issues in making a pact with China, etc., I would hesitate to climb on that particular high horse.

    Labour is pretty much the even of National when it comes to sacrificing human rights on the altar of free trade. But Maryan's bill wasn't grandstanding - she actually believed in it, and so, apparently, did the Labour, Green, Maori, Anderton and Dunne parties, at least enough to vote for it.

    As for UNCROC, NZ is a signatory to it, and to the two optional protocols. They haven't ratified the protocol on child pornography and trafficking, but that is because NZ's way of doing things is to only ratify when all the relevant parts are enforced in domestic law (something I have issues with (and I'm not sure what isn't illegal here), but that's how things are at the moment).

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    And besides, when the choice presented itself to ratify the UN convention on children, Labour chose not to.

    True ... the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, wasn't ratified by New Zealand under a Labour Government; but that's probably because National was in government in 1993.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3009 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    No. National refused to engage with it by taking it to select committee, and that tell us all we need to know.

    That they thought it was an unfixable crap bill? You are entitled to beg to differ, but "National supports slavery" doesn't work on any level other than rather silly and not particularly useful hyperbole which is, in the end, even counter-productive. You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop listening, George.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    You're seriously suggesting that without Field the Government was seriously at risk of losing confidence and supply -- don't think the Greens would have let that happen, somehow.

    It still meant losing a coalition majority, which was a huge political risk, one compounded by the potential for southside voters to think their guy hadn't been given due process. A bigger risk, Clark will have calculated, than that entailed in not immediately getting shot of Field.

    I do agree Clark was in an invidious position, but I suspect it was more about being disinclined to "hand a scalp" to the Opposition or risk alienating PIs in the party than any genuine threat to the Government.

    The funny thing is, Field had been on the outer for ages: he certainly had no love for Labour's social agenda, and most of the Parliamentary party disliked him. All things being equal, they'd have cheerfully been shot of him.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18969 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I can't see what's wrong with the bill. But I guess I'm not right-wing nor a politician, so what would I know.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I don't know who to laugh at the hardest, the people who voted for this lot believing the hype or the scumbags themselves begging their way back into power like a drunken wife beater returning home claiming they can change.
    They have not changed. This is the same cunch of bunts who took $650 mil from the beneficiaries and used it to bail out the BNZ, another wunch of bankers.
    It reminds me of this.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4896 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Of course sections 5 and 6 needed further definition, either through and explanatory note or through further subsections.

    But put that definition in before the first reading, and you'd be accused of an unweildy and unworkeable bill, one that can't be salvaged and needs an entire rewrite. You'd invite partisanship, rather than constructiveness. So, putting forward something that at least only contains things that everyone can agree on seems like the way to do things to me. But what would I know, I clearly don't understand.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    To deal with frequent requests from other MPs that they investigate the case of some constituent or another.

    Like I/S if a minister or their staff looks up any of my records, I'd like to think that they have to sign a bit of paper saying why and that goes to the relevant ministry.

    It certainly shows the government's priorities, doesn't it? Money for the rich, but not for those in genuine need...

    Ironically, quite a few children with special needs attend private schooling because of the better resources, more teacher attention available etc.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6205 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I can't see what's wrong with the bill. But I guess I'm not right-wing nor a politician, so what would I know.

    I still think you're guilty of over-simplification here: the bill may be a fine bill for all I know, but one thing is to table it when the party is in government, quite another when the party is in opposition. I think it's fairer to compare the records on, in the case at hand, human rights and trade based on Labour in government vs. National in government, rather than arbitrarily resetting the clock as of last november.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Ironically, quite a few children with special needs attend private schooling because of the better resources, more teacher attention available etc.

    And yet I know of one recent case locally of a private school trying to drive out kids with special needs, largely I think because they feel they will be targets for bullying

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2176 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    largely I think because they feel they will be targets for bullying

    Plenty of schools, public and private, turn away special needs kids, and I wish the reason was as (relatively) noble as the one you're suggesting.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    You're seriously suggesting that without Field the Government was seriously at risk of losing confidence and supply -- don't think the Greens would have let that happen, somehow. I do agree Clark was in an invidious position, but I suspect it was more about being disinclined to "hand a scalp" to the Opposition or risk alienating PIs in the party than any genuine threat to the Government.

    Well Craig. I suppose you think it's just fine and dandy to sack a Minister without any explanation rather than allow due process do you? Do you? Hmm?.
    Like, you know, like the time our Helen let Winston dig his own grave?
    The Benson Pope thing was always going to be a toughie with the child beaters trying to make Labour look stupid.
    I'll just put the tennis ball back in my mouth now.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4896 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Ironically, quite a few children with special needs attend private schooling because of the better resources, more teacher attention available etc.

    Don't be silly. We all know that rich people eat their deformed young.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4896 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I can't see what's wrong with the bill. But I guess I'm not right-wing nor a politician, so what would I know.

    Quite possibly, you know more than I do on any given topic. But a bald statement like "National supports slavery" is going to get my ORLY? gland going. I don't expect PAS to become a National Party branch any time soon, but there's a level of hyperbole that doesn't add a damn thing to a sensible public policy debate.

    And while I'm embarrased to admit it, Gio has a point. I'm as hooked as anyone on cheap undies made in countries I know have less than ideal, to put it mildly, labour standards. Perhaps we all support slavery more than we'd like to own, George?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    And while I'm embarrased to admit it, Gio has a point.

    That's what I call a wringing endorsement.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I think it's fairer to compare the records on, in the case at hand, human rights and trade based on Labour in government vs. National in government, rather than arbitrarily resetting the clock as of last November.

    You're absolutely right on that, and I agree with you. You won't often find me defending the human rights record of the last Government. The 17,000 signature petition was given to a Labour Government in 2005, and they didn't change the law in the 3 years afterwards. They should have.

    Still, when you have an actual bill in front of you....

    If the Government were to signal this week that they are going to in response draft a bill that was acceptable to them, and then put that through the house as a Government bill, then I'd take them at their word.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Don't be silly. We all know that rich people eat their deformed young.

    Read your Swift, man! Us filthy plutocrats don't eat our own young when the peasantry obligingly produce so much cheap, nutritious protein for fine dining and Satan worship.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I see a report today that Labour had already exposed one of these women's income while they were in power

    Uh, teh Herald says she did that voluntarily as part of publicising that Enterprise funding she used.

    Certainly not the same as having a vindictive bully trumpeting (incorrect) income figures to undermine your lobbying. And then claim to be all surprised and horrified when talkback hordes descend on the bleeding meat.
    I thought they were all vegetarians, yer honour.

    Ms Fuller's income had also been used by the Labour Party in 2007 as an example of the success of its policies. She said she had given permission for then social development minister David Benson-Pope to use the information after she set up a cleaning business with an enterprise allowance.

    In his speech, Mr Benson-Pope lists her total support from the state as $180.50, including an accommodation supplement of $91, a family tax credit of $69.50, and another $20 a week from Working for Families.

    Ms Fuller said it showed the enterprise allowance was successful at getting her off the DPB, although the business ended in January this year because of her health problems.

    I suppose we should be grateful they haven't smeared her further by publicising what those health problems are - yet. I'm sure there's time for that if she doesn't learn her place.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

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