Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The next bylaw will ban irony

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  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    "Finally there is going to be a consequence for joining a gang.

    Haha, ''Sorry Mum I cant come to Wanganui"

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6268 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Wanganui /Whanganui

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6268 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    The mystery of gangs is how the fuck do you stop them forming or how do you reform them.

    Can I have a simple 'starter for 10' first to get me warmed up?

    The authorities here are having some success however fighting the gangs in what they call Operation Al Capone, where they're nailing them again and again on tax and other violations secondary to their apparently dodgy business models.

    I would imagine the authorities in Denmark are not exactly lacking in motivation when it comes to cracking down on bikies, following the piffling and insignificant incidents of minor disorder at the end of last century.

    The Magogs spared me a beating one night when I arguably deserved one in New Plymouth

    So you were asking for it, right....?

    One way to tell whether or not the Magogs have 'gone respectable' is to see if they are flying a "1%er" patch on their colours. If they are, then they still consider themselves to be an 'outlaw' motocycle club. If not, then there may be some merit in the claims of (semi-)respectablility.

    also no ones mentioned the “Filthy Few”, a highly descriptive old fashioned gang moniker

    The 'Filthy Few' in NZ are a bike gang in their own right. They are still active (there were a bunch of them wandering around in their colours at the Paeroa street races last year). They have chapters in Rotorua, Waihi and Tauranga.

    Overseas, the 'Filthy Few' designation applies to Hells Angels who have (alledgedly) killed for the gang. They get to wear an 'SS' patch on their colours. Charming chaps, the lot of them.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Today's Laws news: behaving like a great flaming cock towards some schoolkids.

    Meh... I've seen first-hand how Laws treats uppity adults who have the gall to disagree with him, why should the yoof be treated any differently? Unfortunately, I can't spill the details without violating an (innocent) third party's privacy in a pretty humiliating and gratuitous manner, but I came to the conclusion a looong time ago that he's a very thin-skinned and vindictive piece of work.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey,

    From my limited experience of the breed, it was the casual brutality, glorification of criminality and abuse of women, and utter disdain for the property and human dignity of 'outsiders' that churned my stomach.

    Completely agree, having had some more than limited experience with the breed - you can't choose your family - funny to think that I know of people from other more 'mainstream' groups who occupy much the same territory too...

    and

    This law isn't based on any sort of rational policy or consideration of actions and consequences. It's about the realm of the symbolic.

    I'm astonished no-one is pointing out the irony of one gang using its muscle to 'bash' another.

    From what I can see, there's a bunch of males, wearing regulation dark jackets, making by-law that targets another bunch of males who wear regulation dark jackets with particular embellishments.

    There's plenty of room in this debate for some smart lawyer defending the arrested gang person to ask the Court whether the wider definition of gang should be extended to, well, gangs of middle-class white males. Let's hope the judge is a woman.

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 642 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    The next bylaw will ban irony

    But Laws is already immune...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1096 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    He IS the Laws!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    But Laws is already immune...

    I think anyone who can describe John Key's response to the smacking CIR as "petty fascism", or chunter on about how Louise Nicholas is a pathological and vindictive liar who needs to get over the "mere sensual excesses" she was subjected to and move on (to take two random examples from his SST sewer) isn't merely terminally irony-deficient. He's lacking in shame and common human decency.

    Speaking from the non-wingnutty right, I have an acquaintance who says she can't bear to tune into Public Address Radio because she won't support a station that employs a fuck-tard like Laws. Can't honestly say I blame her.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1096 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    I'm astonished no-one is pointing out the irony of one gang using its muscle to 'bash' another.

    From what I can see, there's a bunch of males, wearing regulation dark jackets, making by-law that targets another bunch of males who wear regulation dark jackets with particular embellishments.

    Police are public servants and are employed by, and accountable to, various arms of government. And therefore, us.

    That's kind of a key difference.

    Also, the police didn't make the by-law. They're just the poor saps that have to enforce it. I wouldn't be surprised if significant numbers of the local plod aren't too happy about that.

    Also, the gangs themselves are more than happy to refer to police as 'the big blue gang'. I'm therefore quite happy not to buy into that line of argument, myself.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    I have an acquaintance who says she can't bear to tune into Public Address Radio because she won't support a station that employs a fuck-tard like Laws. Can't honestly say I blame her.

    No, that’s being precious.

    NZ is such a small place that every media outlet employs someone distasteful in some way or other.

    Name one station / channel / paper that is completely toad-free.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Also, the police didn't make the by-law. They're just the poor saps that have to enforce it. I wouldn't be surprised if significant numbers of the local plod aren't too happy about that.

    Rich: You're right up to a point, but I wish we weren't seeing pulbic statements like this (in the story RB linked to in the original post):

    Police spokeswoman Kim Perks said police had endorsed the gang bylaw as there had been genuine concerns by the community about gang intimidation in Wanganui.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Police make submissions in support of the Wanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill? They can't have it both ways, and if front-line officers aren't in support of the by-law, and their own management and union ignored that then I respectfully suggest that we've got bigger problems here.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    No, that’s being precious.

    Considering the thud of Listener subscriptions being dropped around these parts, I wonder if this is the best place to accuse others of being precious. :)

    Hey, I can hold my nose, file my pieces, and accept they're going to be broadcast on the same frequency as the loathesome Mr. Laws. But at least I'm getting paid for it. I understand others who think differently, having dropped the Herald sub because its much cheaper to insult my own intelligence.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    chunter on about how Louise Nicholas is a pathological and vindictive liar who needs to get over the "mere sensual excesses" she was subjected to and move on

    Excellent, the touch of nausea I needed to complete my morning.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2093 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    Difference being that the dissatisfaction with The Listener and The Herald is more of a generic thing.

    If someone cancelled a Herald subscription solely because Garth George writes for it, then I’d say that was pretty precious too.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    Also, the gangs themselves are more than happy to refer to police as 'the big blue gang'. I'm therefore quite happy not to buy into that line of argument, myself.

    So, being in a gang precludes the ability to undetake critical analysis ? I have a cousin who is a very senior member of Black Power, and some of the stories he has told me about police behaviour leads me to conclude that the concept of a 'big blue gang' is not only apt, but able to be backed up by observed practic.

    In many ways it's like the laws against offensive language. They are, to some extent, worth having, because offensive language is very often a precursor to violence, and is certainly used to intimidate people and whip up anger. If it gives the police an ability to immediately defuse a silly situation from going sillier, on account of something which is basically pretty silly in itself, then they are sometimes helping matters quite a lot.

    Alternatively, they could simply invoke their power to enfore the Queen's Peace. The problem with these kinds of laws is that they can be selectively applied and are open to abuse. Just this morning on Bfm's Law Line there was a mum telling a story in which daughter's friend was alledgedly being pushed around by some police, swore at them for it, and was arrested for obscene language.

    Breaching someone's human rights on the basis of who they associate with, not their behaviour in the instance, is the hallmark of facism not liberalism.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 455 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    being in a gang precludes the ability to undetake critical analysis

    That puts words in my mouth that I never said.

    I'll address the rest of your argument when I get a chance.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey,

    From what I can see, there's a bunch of males, wearing regulation dark jackets, making by-law that targets another bunch of males who wear regulation dark jackets with particular embellishments.

    Police are public servants and are employed by, and accountable to, various arms of government. And therefore, us.

    As the TV camera panned around the Council chamber, all I saw were, again, a bunch of males, wearing regulation dark jackets, making a by-law that targets etc etc.

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 642 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    And meanwhile. On Craig's beloved North Shore the council's lack of commitment allows another Gang to harass an old lady and deprive her of her garden.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4895 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    That puts words in my mouth that I never said.

    And you've come to exactly the wrong corner of the interwebz if you think anyone here -- even a flaming rightie, like myself -- is seriously going to argue that the Police are beyond criticism. But I'd rather pitch my criticism of the by-law on how its really, really BAD LAW, rather than claim the Police are somehow just as bad as (if not worse) than the gangs.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Whereas, I feel bound to say, the Magogs spared me a beating one night when I arguably deserved one in New Plymouth ...

    Did you piss on there legs at the urinals?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2751 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And meanwhile. On Craig's beloved North Shore the council's lack of commitment allows another Gang to harass an old lady and deprive her of her garden.

    Dude, you're not getting all Randi Krishna on us, are you? You know, "the Resource Management Act is creeping fascism" as the Council stomps all over us with their polished jackboots etc. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Breaching someone's human rights on the basis of who they associate with, not their behaviour in the instance, is the hallmark of facism not liberalism.

    No arguments there. Just caveats. Human rights are slippery beasts, and the ban on patches is not a ban on association. It's a ban on wearing a particular item of clothing in a particular place. As a human right, that's well down the list. I still think it's a right, it's just quite a weak one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    I assumed Christopher Dempsey was probably referring to the council members who made and passed the law. Glad to see that assumption was correct.

    Breaching someone's human rights on the basis of who they associate with, not their behaviour in the instance, is the hallmark of facism not liberalism.

    Spot on. (And an "Obscene Language" law is another silly law that should be dropped.)

    [Laws apparently said] Louise Nicholas is a pathological and vindictive liar who needs to get over the "mere sensual excesses" she was subjected to and move on

    He said that? Geez, I didn't think it was possible, but he is even more of a dick than I thought.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    Human rights are slippery beasts, and the ban on patches is not a ban on association. It's a ban on wearing a particular item of clothing in a particular place. As a human right, that's well down the list. I still think it's a right, it's just quite a weak one.

    Isn't it a 'Freedom of Expression' issue?

    Does anyone know what part of the Bill of Rights that gang member (the Tribesman guy) is intending to use in his defense?

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1156 posts Report Reply

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