Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Dunce Dunce Revolution

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  • George Darroch,

    It does seem odd that the Skeptics (and we're talking here about a movement rather than just specifically the New Zealand variety) are willing to suspend their method of inquiry when it comes to Climate Change

    Not to me. I'm no longer surprised by the ability of people to suspend a body of evidence if it would mean giving up a "fact" that has become dear to them. If it means giving up an entire worldview, or at least accepting contradictions in it, the stakes are even higher and acceptance even more difficult.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I run a small business (1 employee me), I pay enough ACC every year that it's roughly worth a day of my time (as I bill it out).

    I figure it's probably going to take me at least another day of my time to find a private insurer - that means my rate will double that year hard to amortize any saving from that over anything less than a decade unless I end up paying 1/10th of the premium - I bet the paper work will be higher ongoing anyway

    At the moment I get one bill a year from the ACC, I write a check along with the others at the end of the month and post it - 10 minutes work.

    And Labour say they'll go back to the old scheme when they're reelected - why would I choose to change? I'll take my 10 minutes/year of overhead happily.

    People also seem to forget WHY we changed to a no-fault scheme - it was to stop us spending all our time in court over personal injury law suits - before ACC people wouldn't give their friends rides in their cars, certainly not if you valued your friendship - after ACC the govt reduced funding to law schools and the courts

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    The ability to identify words like "torrid", "sere", and "limpid" is, quite frankly, far more a test of how much old-school Trek fanfic I've been reading this week than native intelligence.

    Lucy, I dropped out of my US PhD programme after four years. All I have to comfort me is a useless postgrad diploma in my minor, Women's Studies, and my 'you are a 99th percentile badass' score in the verbal portion of the GRE. Don't take that small joy away from me, with all your logic and whatnot! Sob.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    Re the education changes: There seems to be a 'one size fits all' approach being taken here. What I mean by that is that ALL the advisors for science, PE etc. are being dropped, which assumes that ALL schools need the advisors in the 3Rs. One would have thought that a number of schools would have their act together in the 3Rs and are now looking to extend into the other areas.

    The Minister also talks about this pool of advisors that they can switch on and off for the different subjects one year to the next. It does beg the question as to what the science advisors will do for the next year. It's highly likely that they will change careers and so won't then be available when the Minister deems they are necessary at some arbitrary point in the future.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Morgan Nichol,

    So, I feel that a huge fuck-you-very-much needs to go out to Act voters right about now.

    I was in the Epsom electorate for last election, and I did everything I could to stop them. In this case that amounted to holding my nose and dropping my electorate vote on National.

    Fuckers.

    Auckland CBD • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    I was in the Epsom electorate for last election, and I did everything I could to stop them. In this case that amounted to holding my nose and dropping my electorate vote on National.

    Ditto. It was all that I could do. I hadn't counted on Rodders getting quite such a significant margin, after his nearly-almost-ran performance in '05, but I can at least say, hand on heart, that I contributed not a single tick to his cause.

    If Labour can pull finger and get organised, National are in the process of handing the '11 election over on a silver platter. I'm not sure if they realise it yet, but by even entertaining the prospect of competition in accounts such as motor vehicles they're offering such electoral gifts to Labour as few politicians could conceive of except in their most rampant of wet dreams.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    The Minister also talks about this pool of advisors that they can switch on and off for the different subjects one year to the next. It does beg the question as to what the science advisors will do for the next year. It's highly likely that they will change careers and so won't then be available when the Minister deems they are necessary at some arbitrary point in the future.

    They're science teachers. Don't we just power them down and store them in their pods in the Beehive basement?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    But then of course it struck me: science helps you understand the world; arithmetic helps you become an accountant or currency trader. And we all know which is more important if you're ambitious for Nu Zild.

    To be fair, it seems to me you need maths to understand (a lot of) science, you don't need science so much to understand maths.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It really does seem to me that there is an active hostility in this Government, among some Ministers at least, to expert opinion.

    George: I'd be cynical enough to say that politicians of all stripes are human enough that you've got a hard day's work ahead to get them to listen to anything they don't want to hear. Ysterday's "expertise" becomes tomorrow's "ideological burp" if the speaker is foolish enough to go off message.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Parker,

    First off the important stuff.

    Great about Southland winning last night, eh!

    No Geoff, not for Hawkes Bay it wasn't!!!!

    National, and its minister, Anne Tolley, really had no grasp on the implications of its policy at the time it was promised

    Tolley has a very simplistic, narrow and uninformed view of education in this country that is driven not by educational outcomes but tory ideology. An example being the budget-She was going to change pupil-teacher ratios back to higher levels until she realised that the previous administration had already implemented these. 700 teachers would have lost their jobs so the proposal was canned. Not because it was unsound educationally but because it would have caused even more dissent in the teaching profession and she wanted our support for this stupid standards policy. As soon as the policy was announced I felt insulted as a teacher. It was as if I and the rest of my profession weren't doing our job. That aside setting standards does not raise achievement, good teaching and supportive policies do. I set standards in my classroom, I inform parents about their child's progress and I focus on more than just literacy and numeracy. Why should I be tied to a narrow assesment regime that is more about scoring political points than soilid educational outcomes.
    Ah well-today's a holiday (HB anniversary) and the Magpies will win tonight.

    Napier • Since Nov 2008 • 232 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Bahaha. Unfortunately NZ's relative disdain for intelligence testing is not overly useful, although perhaps that should be the real criteria for logical thinking. Despite the ideal that it studying should not convey an advantage for such tests, it's not the case, which puts us at a disadvantage.

    When somone can explain with precision what intelligence and is not I will entertain the idea of measuring it. Otherwise get used to the idea that at best the GRE is a test of willingness to study and at worst it is a test of middle class resourcefulness.

    FWIW - I refused an international scholarship at a major lab early in my career because I would not take that f*****g futile test. I have yet to regret that act.

    As for Tolley I am not sure if she knows what she is doing or not, but she does seem at the moment to be the face of anti-science, anti-intellectual and above all anti-evidence New Zealand.

    <Sound of head banging on desk>

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    The Minister also talks about this pool of advisors that they can switch on and off for the different subjects one year to the next. It does beg the question as to what the science advisors will do for the next year. It's highly likely that they will change careers and so won't then be available when the Minister deems they are necessary at some arbitrary point in the future.

    I'm reminded of parts of season 4 of The Wire (cheers to all those people on here who kept plugging that show, very good), where the Maths teacher was instructed to stop teaching maths and just teach writing skills, as that is where the school was falling down in terms of achievement and therefore funding. Absolutely terrifying way to run a schooling system.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    In a week when significant changes to the ACC scheme have also been set in motion more on the basis of ideology than evidence, we would to well to contemplate where that kind of behaviour tends to get us.

    Not sure about the we. And contemplation of behaviours could be a big ask. I'm not sure someone such as Anne Tolley would know what that looks like.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Re: Minister Tolley's education policy - what next, gakushū juku? Seriously though, we seem to be shifting towards the kind of system Japan is moving away from.

    I'm reminded of parts of season 4 of The Wire (cheers to all those people on here who kept plugging that show, very good), where the Maths teacher was instructed to stop teaching maths and just teach writing skills, as that is where the school was falling down in terms of achievement and therefore funding. Absolutely terrifying way to run a schooling system.

    And people thought Aunty Helen was a control freak.

    As for Tolley I am not sure if she knows what she is doing or not, but she does seem at the moment to be the face of anti-science, anti-intellectual and above all anti-evidence New Zealand.

    "So what, if you can design a space shuttle? All we want to know is, are you driving the latest Range Rover?"

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen,

    "...the GRE is a test of willingness to study and at worst it is a test of middle class resourcefulness."

    Hey, I'm with Danielle - don't knock middle class resourcefulness, it's all some of us have got.
    (The question I remember went something like "Congress is to gubernatorial as senate is to ...?". And James thinks this is an IQ test?)

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 254 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    When somone can explain with precision what intelligence and is not I will entertain the idea of measuring it.

    There are lots of annoyingly abstract things in science that are difficult to measure, and psychology is blessed with many such. Uh, happiness, depression, intelligence ...

    What makes it amusing, is that there's a big difference between a test showing some validity on average over individuals, and one that is predictive for an individual. So higher scores on a test might be associated with a higher salary, but that doesn't mean that a person with a high score will get a high salary. Or whatever.

    They are, as someone already pointed out, a laziness tool. It's really hard to come up with a valid way of measuring something like intelligence, and a really good measure is likely to appear subjective and easy to criticise. Wouldn't it be much easier and cheaper to come up with something much more reliable that appears nice and objective, but that has much lower validity. It's why things like impact factors and the h-index are so popular. Interestingly, I'd suggest that PBRF is trying to head down the more valid/less reliable direction; but whether it has win is debatable. Plus it's Friday!

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Many foul words have been directed at Ms Tolley from this household lately.

    I have a kid who absolutely will not do stuff like writing unless he can see a purpose to it (and getting better at writing is not a purpose for writing thank you very much) so, for him and probably many other kids, subjects like science are the way to teach him literacy and numeracy skills.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    (The question I remember went something like "Congress is to gubernatorial as senate is to ...?". And James thinks this is an IQ test?)

    That's crystallised intelligence, as opposed to fluid intelligence. And speaking of straws to hold onto. Your crystallised intelligence keeps increasing often well into your 60s or 70s, whereas fluid intelligence starts to decrease by the late 20s.

    NB: Theoretically, IQ tests are not supposed to be culturally bound, which is, like most other things about IQ tests, fail. Although the GRE as a test is bound to the US, so I guess it's not too outrageous to have US knowledge questions.

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Hey, I'm with Danielle - don't knock middle class resourcefulness, it's all some of us have got.
    (The question I remember went something like "Congress is to gubernatorial as senate is to ...?". And James thinks this is an IQ test?)

    There's a whole data analysis question in the practice test in which getting the correct answers requires the knowledge that "Congress", while colloquially used to refer to the House of Representatives, is technically the name for *both* Houses, a distinction I imagine many Americans would have trouble remembering. And another maths question which involves knowing how quarts relate to gallons.

    Although the GRE as a test is bound to the US, so I guess it's not too outrageous to have US knowledge questions.

    Given that they require it of international applicants, though, they're loading the scales a little. They don't exactly say "we are testing your knowledge of maths and English and the intricacies of our antiquated and useless measurement system."

    (It's okay, Danielle, 99% is still badass.)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Many foul words have been directed at Ms Tolley from this household lately.

    I've had a guilty sense of relief that my kids are done (well, end of this year) with primary school.

    Science is a great way of engaging kids with learning: most of those 'kid' questions they spontaneously ask are about science.

    And I know we're not talking about stopping teaching science, this is about support. But that boggles me more in a way: what's more likely to change and need updating over five or ten years, science or reading?

    (I have this whole rant my partner has sat through many times about how, very very basic 3Rs stuff aside, science was the most useful thing I learnt at school, on a 'stuff I use on a day to day basis' level. But that's ranty.)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth,

    The front page quote on Stuff leaves me speechless:

    "If they do nothing other than teach our children to read and write and do maths and be good socialised New Zealand people then they've done a really good job."

    Minister Anne Tolley on new school standards

    Was it Keith Hay on the Mt Roskill Borough Council in the 50s or 60s who was adamant that no library would be built until every street had footpaths? Sigh.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 458 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    On a completely different, Friday-friendly note, this is pretty amusing. And very topical for this forum.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    "If they do nothing other than teach our children to read and write and do maths and be good socialised New Zealand people then they've done a really good job."

    Minister Anne Tolley on new school standards

    I'm not really sure "standards" is the word they're looking for. They appear to have mislaid them.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    "If they do nothing other than teach our children to read and write and do maths and be good socialised New Zealand people then they've done a really good job."

    Good lord.
    I kinda had higher hopes for my son's education than that...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    "If they do nothing other than teach our children to read and write and do maths and be good socialised New Zealand people then they've done a really good job."
    Minister Anne Tolley on new school standards

    It is rather the Tall Poppy Syndrome writ large - let's try not to create any excellent students

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

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