Busytown by Jolisa Gracewood

Read Post

Busytown: A good read

353 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 15 Newer→ Last

  • Emma Hart,

    Oh, Jolisa. Beautiful and sad.

    And oddly apposite, because plagiarism does make me feel grief-y, as if it's a loss of some kind.

    The Herald story makes it sound like the Garth George excuse: that it was quoting that was accidentally not attributed. I get the feeling it's not that simple?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4349 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    You'll be able to read the results in the Listener on Monday, or earlier, if you are a subscriber.

    Yup -- got our copy this morning. Excellent detective work on your part, and for all the bitching of the Listener that goes on in these parts, isn't it rather flattering that this story scored the cover?

    As for Ihimaera -- he's a very very lucky chap. Academics have been sacked -- and authors dumped by their publishers -- for less.

    (BTW, anything I could say about your dad's death would be totally impertinent and redundant. So, for once in my life, I won't say a thing.)

    The Herald story makes it sound like the Garth George excuse: that it was quoting that was accidentally not attributed. I get the feeling it's not that simple?

    Good, Emma. I'm not the only one -- after all, you did have to go through the proofs of your book more than once, didn't you?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11897 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Gracewood,

    I'm stunned that it's as simple as saying "sorry", and that the university finds "no deliberate wrong-doing."

    So I understand: was there a mix of attributed and non-attributed stuff in the book? The Herald reads as if there were just some attributions left off a list.

    Orkland • Since Nov 2006 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    I get the feeling it's not that simple?

    It's definitely complex; the quotes were mostly tweaked and then spliced into the surrounding text. The Listener will have a sidebar featuring some of the more significant examples.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1410 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    It's definitely complex; the quotes were mostly tweaked and then spliced into the surrounding text. The Listener will have a sidebar featuring some of the more significant examples.

    Oooooooh. That's...problematic. I know it can be easy to unconsciously re-use someone else's turn of phrase, but that sounds a bit more premeditated, as it were.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2093 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    So I understand: was there a mix of attributed and non-attributed stuff in the book? The Herald reads as if there were just some attributions left off a list.

    Ben: Since Jolisa is far too polite, let me be a proxy pimp and urge you to buy The Listener. :) The story soberly lays out the case that it's a lot more complex than The Herald would have you believe, and I'm also far from impressed by Jan Crosthwaite's response. I'm sure every arts student and academic at Auckland University would like to know the percentage tipping point where plagiarism crosses the line from "regrettable" and "a matter of concern" to very serious shit indeed.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11897 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    So sorry to hear about your father. I know the sympathy of strangers can do little to ease the hurt but you have my sympathy nonetheless.

    The words will fall back into place but it will take time. Talking with friends helped me, as did walking over most of Auckland in the week after my father died. But mostly it seems like it is just time that allows your thoughts to re-organise themselves.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3301 posts Report Reply

  • richard,

    Auckland University's investigation was indeed impressively quick and efficient.

    Especially since it cannot be known whether the list of unattributed passages is complete -- given that we are told that the copying was unintentional, no-one can know for sure whether the list they looked at is exhaustive.

    Not looking for New Engla… • Since Nov 2006 • 259 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    That's...problematic.

    That's a word. It's not the one that sprang to my mind. Or yours, right?

    you did have to go through the proofs of your book more than once, didn't you?

    I'm just going to giggle in a slightly unhinged fashion. Yes, more than once. More than fuckloads.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4349 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Craig,

    It IS a sinking feeling when you come across that sudden shift in tone or language isn't it? There seems to be a lot of this going around at the moment - high profile people being caught out plagiarising. And nothing happens to them as far as I can tell. Perhaps a small slap on the wrist, a bit of public humiliation and off they go. And the University's response is just disgusting - all the fine words about the seriousness of plagiarism, how awful it is, what dire consequences there will be etc. etc. when you assign essays to students, but if a lecturer does it oh well then, that's ok, must have been inadvertent. If anyone should know what plagiarism is and how not to do it, it should be him. No excuses and no waffling about what he did. It's no wonder that plagiarism is rife in schools and tertiary institutions, if the teachers are doing it and not being punished.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Barnett,

    I met your father once, at his mother's funeral -- he made quite an impression, as you may have heard from others. Your family has lost quite a man. Glad he is a presence in your blog.

    Best wishes from an unmet cousin-in-law.

    Wellington • Since Aug 2009 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    By the way, if anyone has the article and the scanner, I'd love to see a copy! Will pay in.. uh.. leftover Halloween candy or something.

    More soon, just off to talk to Radio NZ.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1410 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm just going to giggle in a slightly unhinged fashion. Yes, more than once. More than fuckloads.

    Heh... that's what you get for being scrupulous and literate as well as a slashingly hot piece of arse. Bear your burden proudly, lovely Emma.

    At least you're not as bad as Neil Gaiman who wrote several thousand words of (highly amusing) near-live blogs about how copy editing and proof reading American Gods was driving him insane -- in a good way, mostly.

    (Mad Sweeney, for example, who claims when drunk to be Irish and a leprechaun, says "fucken" a lot. The copy editor has carefully gone through and carefully changed every "fucken" to "fuckin' ", figuring, I suppose, that I just didn't know how it was spelled.)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11897 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Nick, thank you so much! And Bart, and Emma, and everyone for words spoken and unspoken, and kind thoughts.

    it's oddly apposite, because plagiarism does make me feel grief-y, as if it's a loss of some kind

    And they call it a victimless crime. It has been a very queasy sort of a week, all round.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1410 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    mostly tweaked and then spliced into the surrounding text

    Ruh-roh. (Sometimes, only the pidgin dog-English of Scooby-Doo can fully express my feelings.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3643 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I'm so sorry about your father's death, Jolisa.

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1303 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Just as a comment about the University's reaction. I think most people still think of Universities as academic and pure organisations. However, nowadays they are under tremendous pressure to bring in paying students and an author that well known does bring in students. That creates a conflict for the University that is uncomfortable for everyone. The cost of showing him the door would be large and could well leave them open to legal comeback.

    The cost of slapping him on the wrist and keeping him is merely a moral one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3301 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    That's a word. It's not the one that sprang to my mind. Or yours, right?

    Mostly as a euphemism for "a fucking stupid thing to do", I will admit.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2093 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Jacqui is right, the university's response is interesting to say the least. Lots of students will have got back big red zeros on essays for doing something similar.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6162 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    My condolences and empathetic feelings, J.


    The Herald reports that "He said of the 528 page novel, less than 0.4 per cent had been published without acknowledgement." I guess I'm not the only one who thought, "that's... (hmmm... 20 pages?)... quite a lot, actually."

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Yes... but usually there's a process, and they get a second chance, but if they stuff up on the second chance, then they get penalised.

    It's an odd feeling, when you're reading an essay, and something doesn't quite seem right. The language changes subtly, or sometimes not so subtly. The most obvious ones are where everything suddenly becomes grammatically correct. I'm sure there are cases of "extensive unattributed quoting" that I've missed, but I've picked up a few too, via that prickly feeling and google.

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1303 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    So sorry for your loss Jolisa.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 705 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    scrupulous and literate as well as a slashingly hot piece of arse

    I'm shitted that's a bit long for a t-shirt. See, this is why I keep telling people you're lovely.

    Mostly as a euphemism for "a fucking stupid thing to do", I will admit.

    And "pretty much impossible to do by accident".

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4349 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood,

    Lots of students will have got back big red zeros on essays for doing something similar.

    As I said to Jolisa in an email, the Department of Engineering at UoC would kick people out of the course for plagiarism (depending on severity).

    The logic being that engineers can so very easily kill people, and you can't let the dishonest and unreliable types loose on society. So it could easily turn into a victim-filled crime in my (former) profession.

    But happily for Prof I., Auckland University appears to be more relaxed about this kind of thing. (Unless Bart's depressing theory has something in it...)

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 981 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Gracewood,

    Aside: among the greater things I regret about Dad's passing was that we did not record his 'Fun'eral as an instructional video.

    HOWTO: Secular White Man's Funeral.

    Orkland • Since Nov 2006 • 167 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 15 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.