Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Do My Homework For Me

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  • Joanna,

    I suppose the first obvious contradiction is that you have have sex at 16, but you can't watch it until 18, so make sure you keep your eyes shut...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 727 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Photos of adult workplaces should never be shown to small children, lest they are frightened into becoming vagabonds or slackers.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16608 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    I'd want to know how much context matters - will an image used to illustrate a serious article on child-porn be treated differently from a similar image on a website 'promoting' sex with minors?

    Every day we see images of illegal acts (often real rather than recreated) so while (fake) erotic images of children might feel different I find it hard to logically justify treating them differently from, for example, a murder in a TV drama.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 705 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Under what circumstances should it be illegal to look at a picture of something it is legal to do?

    If the production of the image directly involved a criminal act. I'm thinking, in particular, of "upskirt" pics here-there's no crime in wearing a skirt, but the harmful invasion of privacy involved in taking the pictures is magnified by the act of deliberately viewing them.

    Other than that rather lose and broad line though, I don't really think their should be limitations on the viewing of images even if what is depicted is illegal (which puts me on the side of people who might enjoy photoshopped or cartoon images of illegal acts where the base "real life" source and production does not involve an illegal act-a strange and uncomfortable place to be, I agree.)

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 861 posts Report Reply

  • JackElder,

    possession date

    That's very obliging that you find out the date in advance. Makes it much easier to book the exorcist in early, before they get busy with the late summer poltergeist rush.

    Wellington • Since Mar 2008 • 708 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Every day we see images of illegal acts (often real rather than recreated) so while (fake) erotic images of children might feel different I find it hard to logically justify treating them differently from, for example, a murder in a TV drama.

    We're also going to start seeing more questions like this in the context of video games, which are, in a monetary sense, becoming bigger than TV and movies. I have no doubt that depictions of rape (for example) are going to start creeping in to adult video games in a few years time. (Not just in hentai games.)

    As a long time proponent of the idea that video games are the next big thing in storytelling and should be taken as seriously as any other artform, I'm struggling to think of an easy answer to how this can be dealt with. It's easy to stick a rape scene in a novel and have it slip past the censors, but it's much harder to do so in TV and movies, and I suspect that video games will find that level of narrative freedom even harder to achieve.

    NB: I'm completely avoiding the problematic way in which rape and other crimes are handled by most fiction authors, let alone visual fictional formats just purely for brevity here. Apologies if this offends anyone-I actually have a blog post on "Why Rape In Fantasy and Sci Fi Is Objectively Lazy Writing" percolating in my brain on this very topic.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 861 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I'd want to know how much context matters - will an image used to illustrate a serious article on child-porn be treated differently from a similar image on a website 'promoting' sex with minors?

    Censors are legally required to take context (and things like frequency and degree) into consideration.

    I suppose the first obvious contradiction is that you have have sex at 16, but you can't watch it until 18, so make sure you keep your eyes shut...

    The age of consent in Canada is fourteen. That's four years of keeping your eyes shut.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4354 posts Report Reply

  • dyan campbell,

    The age of consent in Canada is fourteen. That's four years of keeping your eyes shut.

    Not quite Emma.

    Age of Consent in Canada is 16

    Beginning May 1, 2008, the age of sexual consent in Canada is 16 years old.
    The age of consent in Canada is the age at which the criminal law recognizes the legal capacity of a young person to consent to sexual activity. Under the Criminal Code of Canada anyone under the age of 16 cannot legally consent to any form of sexual activity, from kissing to intercourse. It means that adults are criminally liable if they have sex with someone under that age. The offence carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

    The law has a "close-in-age" exemption of less than five years, which permits teens to engage in consensual sex with a partner who is less than five years older as long as the older partner is not in a position of trust or authority and the relationship is not exploitive.

    The age of protection for exploitive sexual activity, such as sexual activity involving prostitution, pornography, or a relationship of trust, is 18. The age of consent for anal sex is also 18.

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 595 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Under what circumstances should it be illegal to look at a picture of something it is legal to do?

    Not sure if this is exactly what you're diriving at, but it's quite legal to own all kinds of chemicals and household products -- that can be combined to make bombs.

    After a rather unnerving Google search of the phrase "homemade chemical bombs", I'm not so sure I'd be that upset if a good proportion of the HCB Julia Childs out there just went away.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11910 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Not quite Emma.

    Ah, sorry, Dyan, I've missed this:

    The Tackling Violent Crime Act took effect on 1 May 2008, raising the age of consent to 16 from 14.

    That was after we spent time at Bardic Web trying to work out an acceptable 'youngest age' barrier for erotica there.

    But given the close in age exception which means that 14 and 15 year olds can have sex with anyone (pretty much) less than five years older than them, that gives you a practical age of consent (because how many 14 year olds have romantic parters older than 19?) which is younger than what we're used to finding 'acceptable'.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4354 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Dickison,

    The Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993 has a list of practices which automatically make a publication "objectionable”. The usual suspects: torture, kiddie porn, bestiality. But it also includes:

    "the use of urine or excrement in association with degrading or dehumanising conduct or sexual conduct”

    I think that makes scat or watersports publications/sites illegal, but the practices themselves, unlike everything else on the Objectionable list, are not illegal in NZ. So that's a good test case.

    Since Feb 2010 • 12 posts Report Reply

  • Jake Pollock,

    Raumati South • Since Nov 2006 • 489 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    There have been cases of girls below the age of 18 being charged with making child pornography for taking photos of themselves and circulating them.

    That is very odd to me


    oh and it must be very nice to be a woman with an A-Cup and be told you no longer look like a women. slightly more degrading than the pictures id say

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I think that the murder analogy is a good one we already make subtle distinctions in this area - murders are depicted on TV hourly but snuff films are illegal - we all understand the distinction ... but it's sex and somehow that makes a difference ....

    Really I think making looking at an image illegal is basically creating a thought crime. On the other hand creating an image of a crime (child porn or snuff films for example) and trafficing in it (including downloading it) is an easier thing to make illegal without as many grey areas

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2125 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I'd want to know how much context matters - will an image used to illustrate a serious article on child-porn be treated differently from a similar image on a website 'promoting' sex with minors?

    This reminds me of the idea of a teenage boy feeling certain stirrings upon seeing a photo of a topless African woman in National Geographic.

    Sure, it's a serious context, but it's still a photo of a naked lady.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1855 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    This reminds me of the idea of a teenage boy feeling certain stirrings upon seeing a photo of a topless African woman in National Geographic.

    At my school it was the boy with his face in the back of a goat...a very well thumbed volume that one

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • Judi Lapsley Miller,

    I’ve been slogging my way through a job which has allowed me to categorically state that the most boring place in the country is Clive. Sorry, Clive.

    No, don't apologise. Having lived in Clive from age 8 thru 18, I can attest that Clive is indeed the most boring place in the country. And that's being kind.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Really I think making looking at an image illegal is basically creating a thought crime.

    This is the line that Ms Naughty has taken (page contains no offensive material, but words likely to trip your work filter.)

    If a model is over 18, she is legal. The magazine in question may be offensive in what it depicts but it’s not child porn. Unless someone can show evidence that reading that kind of magazine leads directly to criminal activity, we are legislating against thought crime.

    The message to slim women (and I've not yet seen mention of the cultural/racial aspects of this) is that they're not proper women and men who find them attractive are perverts. Now, I'm actually not one of those people who thinks women get their messages about body image from the pornography they don't watch, but still.

    And okay, so breast size is only one indicator used to judge 'apparent age'. But what others are they going to use? Pubic hair? In porn?

    (Tangentially, I was talking to my partner yesterday, relating a conversation I'd had with someone who'd found Up Front recently. I said, "So he was doing a google..." And Karl's reply was "What the hell was he looking for?")

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4354 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    No, don't apologise. Having lived in Clive from age 8 thru 18, I can attest that Clive is indeed the most boring place in the country. And that's being kind.

    Agreed. I mean, I grew up in Hastings, and even that was a step up from Clive.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 861 posts Report Reply

  • Josh Addison,

    There have been cases of girls below the age of 18 being charged with making child pornography for taking photos of themselves and circulating them.

    Indeed - I've also heard of such cases in the US, where the prosecutors then pushed for them to be tried as adults. Could be an urban myth - surely that would have created enough of a logical paradox to destroy the world?

    Onehunga, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 297 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I thought it was generally accepted that Levin is the most boring place in New Zealand. Has Clive eclipsed it?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3653 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Could be an urban myth - surely that would have created enough of a logical paradox to destroy the world?

    Nope, it's completely true. Russell has linked to the case on an Up Front thread before, but I can't remember where to find it.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4354 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I thought it was generally accepted that Levin is the most boring place in New Zealand. Has Clive eclipsed it?

    Oh yes, in fact the whole point of Transmission Gully seems to be that it will enable motorists to reach Levin from Wellington 23 minutes sooner.

    As I always say when we drive into Levin: boy, if only we could have been here 23 minutes ago!

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7357 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    they're not proper women and men who find them attractive are perverts

    Only the men? ;)

    Could be an urban myth - surely that would have created enough of a logical paradox to destroy the world?

    Something to do with "sexting", if I am thinking of the same thing. Kids below the age of consent charged as adults for taking and circulating cellphone pics.

    watersports

    Note that in Australia, they're still trying to figure out if this includes female ejaculation :))

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 348 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    a logical paradox

    No problem in a faith-based politico-legal system

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16608 posts Report Reply

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