Field Theory: A post about art (sort of)
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I don't mean the term 'art' to carry a value judgement here. But different categories of activity.
And 'Art Department' is a specialised and technical usage of the word 'art'.
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Ah, but what is art? How can we define it? Are our definitons objective, or subjective? How do we tell what is 'good' art, and what is 'bad' art?
Arrgrrrrrhh!!! Not that again. Too soon.
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'Art' is a big tent, attempts to exclude people from it (particularly with quasi snobbery like people who make works for entertainment shouldn't also make public art works) are silly.
It isn't snobbery. I wouldn't suggest that Bill Hammond make a sculpture on the basis of his paintings, because painting and sculpture are different.
I mean, of course things like set design can be art, see the current show at the Canterbury SOFA Gallery.
(It's a different argument from the one about fine arts degrees, which is merely that one can have one and not make art.)
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Isn't casting bronze statues as much a practical art as a conceptual thing. Weta have the practical knowledge in spades, and enough imagination in the ranks to pull this off as well as anyone.
Anyway, what's proposed is more a monument than a sculpture. Give this commission to a real artist and they might think about what the rugby world cup really means t us and make a giant bronze dog turd (or something).
IMHO any 5m edifice to rugby is plain tacky.
How about a bronze set of goal posts (complete with padding and someone diving in for a try kind of suspended along side one of them) as a gateway somewhere.
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"I know a lot about Art but I don't know what I like"
Rather than argue about it here why not LookIt Up
I had this discussion the other night with 3410
"Kiri Te Kinawa, or whatever her name is, is referred to as an artist, an opera singer but she writes no songs. Len Lye was known as an artist, a sculptor but many of his works were constructed by others." Discuss. -
How is being a singer not being an artist?
Len Lye - well, I think of him as a kinetic artist (I especially like his work with film.) -
Of course Len Lye was an artist. Apart form the fact that he did a ton of stuff himself, the fact that some of his designs were constructed by others doesn't make him any less of an artist - I frankly doubt it's even up for any sort of debate.
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Why must a singer write songs to be considered an artist? Must a songwriter also sing her songs to be accepted as an artist? I think not.
Len Lye is an artist because he is accepted by the Art World as such. Artists are identified by the Art World by the fact of their making expressive pieces of work, and the purpose of those works being expression. Making props for movies is not art - it's primary purpose is not artistic expression.
There is also a big question of skill here. The sculptural output of Weta Workshop is not of good quality. Like much conservative art, it is dedicated to prosaic realism, yet its makers are not competent to capture likenesses well. It is also weighed down by leaden symbolism. In this case, we have a sculpture of two halves - which represent earthquakes or teams or islands or any other pairing you can think of. Mawkish sentiment suffuses this and every other Weta work.
In short, it is kitsch, a sort of Capitalist Realism. Real artists moved on from this sort of thing decades ago, and even then its was only the second-rate who indulged in it.
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Islander.
How is being a singer not being an artist?
Gio.
Of course Len Lye was an artist.
Paul.
Artists are identified by the Art World by the fact of their making expressive pieces of work, and the purpose of those works being expression.
I think Paul won that one...
Now, your starter for 10 points. ;-)Can TV commercials ever be considered Art?
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Geez you stirrer!
I'd submit the "Going West" ad as evidence for art existing in the bowels of commercialism.
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This one?
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I still love it (and that's the 7th playing.) It's the meld of sound and paper-pic conjuration-
Who is the V/0? It sounds rather like Murray Gray, Murray-ther-Malt?
Yes? No? -
Who is the V/0? It sounds rather like Murray Gray, Murray-ther-Malt?
Yes? No?It's a bit of a mystery who does the V/O here. Murray Grey is the director of the annual Going West Literary Festival so there is a connection. The Sound design was done in Shoreditch, East London, by Mikkel H. Eriksen INSTRUMENT [studio] but I'm buggered if I can find anything to confirm the identity of the Narrator.
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There is also a big question of skill here. The sculptural output of Weta Workshop is not of good quality.
I'll respectfully disagree.
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I must say I really liked some of their ephemeral stuff - the Gollum at the airport was great, and it was great in part because you knew it wouldn't be there forever. The tripod in courtenay place is just stupid - why the hell is it still there? But I agree with Kyle that it is of good quality. I mean, it just sits there, not showing signs of wear and tear. It is a detailed sculpture that I'm sure reflects the design with some precision. Can't be faulted in those respects.
But the quality of the idea? Come on.
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I am fear they are all terribly well-made and will last for years. But as sculpture, they are rubbish: more GI Joe than Giacometti. I expect they are all done with computers and cameras. Making measured models of things as exact reproductions is not much of an artistic act.
No doubt we will find out the secrets of Weta's technique when they produce a making-of-the-making-of film about this ghastly episode in the decline of our culture.
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But as sculpture, they are rubbish: more GI Joe than Giacometti.
Oh go on Paul, why don't you say what you really mean?
Weta has some excellent technicians, I have worked with a few of them in the past. Artists?. Well, I guess that is the question we have been discussing wasn't it?. As you said upthreadArtists are identified by the Art World by the fact of their making expressive pieces of work, and the purpose of those works being expression.
Define expression. Is it not also expression if a technician works from a rough idea working for a committee to say what that committee wants to express?. For instance, can Architecture be Art?
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Architecture traditionally has been accepted as one of the Arts by the Art World, so it is art in that respect. Whether architecture is expressive is another question; I would say yes. That its primary purpose is not expression but habitation suggests it is not an art form.
Technical competence does not imply artistic expression. One could produce a very realistic imitation of an object - something like a model car, say - without producing a work of art. I think there needs to be some intention of producing art, as well as acceptance of the object as being art by the Art World.
I do not agree with the contention that art is a big tent. I think it quite a small tent.
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One could produce a very realistic imitation of an object - something like a model car, say - without producing a work of art.
Well that depends on what? If the model of the car a realistic rendition of an existing design then it is just that, a model but if that rendition is a generic form of a car then it is an expression. I think we may be expressing the difference between Arts and Crafts and that... is a whole kettle of fish with a can of worms... on toast.
Architecturally speaking, St Kevin's Arcade and the Myers Park buildings, especially the Kindergarten, is a great New Zealand example of Arts and Crafts thinking in design. Don't you think?. -
Kindergarten, yes; St Kevin's is Roman.
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Kindergarten, yes; St Kevin's is Roman.
When were the Romans here, did I miss something?.
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Artists are identified by the Art World by the fact of their making expressive pieces of work, and the purpose of those works being expression.
Without a clear definition of the "Art World" I'm not buying this, as the definition is clearly ciircular in the context used here.
n.b. I can be as expressive as I like at a Karioke bar, but an art installation ? I think not.
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The tripod in courtenay place is just stupid - why the hell is it still there?
I quite like it. It's playful and is perfectly located - right in front of the Embassy theatre, just down from the Paramount, in the town's entertainment district.
It's taken the skills that the Weta dudes have in designing and building sci-fi models and turned that into a giant alien tripod film-making robot.
And - fortunately - it's not especially laden with symbolism.
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I quite like it. It's playful and is perfectly located - right in front of the Embassy theatre, just down from the Paramount, in the town's entertainment district.
I could tolerate it for all those reasons if it was temporary, like the troll on top of the embassy. As a permanent fixture it's just a concept that wasn't very clever to start with and keeps getting older. IMHO, and all that.
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I think it quite a small tent.
Well, I'm of the (subjective) opinion that pretty much everything 'created' by Emin, Hirst, or any of those Hoxton twerps is an enormous heap of steaming, stinking ordure.
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