OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Budget 2010: What’d you expect?

275 Responses

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  • 3410,

    take note

    I shall.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    It's a nice world Key lives in

    some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    It's a nice world Key lives in

    some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

    but no one calls it Helensville

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

    Don't be hatin the rich. When there are more rich people paying less tax we're all better off, no matter what our incomes

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I like fair wealth. By contrast, I've just watched another limp old white judge worrying that poor Mr Bryers would find it "inconvenient" to jet back from his luxury Sydney pad to undertake the cursory "community service" that is meant to make up for stealing over $80m of people's retirement savings. You can see how defrauded investors might be tempted to apply some justice of their own. No wonder the prick had a police escort.

    My spreadsheet on distribution of the tax cuts is here

    Though like last year's Budget this one pleasantly surprised me in some parts, I'm not in the mood to disagree with Idiot/Savant's sentiments:

    Not on the table: those earning over $150,000, the top 2%, pocket $430 million, about 11.5% of the total. This is almost exactly the amount the government has to borrow to fund this package. The people of New Zealand will be saddled with further debt to pay for the greed of the few at the top.

    Also not on the table: the effects of increased GST. This will effectively claw back everything gained by those earning under $20,000, and most of what is gained by those earning under $70,000. Only the rich will be better off. And that's without even getting into the effects of higher ACC charges or reduced government services.

    Basically, the vast majority of New Zealanders have just been screwed over for the benefit of a tiny percentage of parasites at the top. John Key is right - we shouldn't be envious: we should be angry.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    You know, the most depressing thing about this budget is that it is clear Bill English's thinking hasn't progressed since the Shipley government.

    It is the same formula - a magical belief in the power of tax cuts, funded by pretending tomorrow will never come.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    But it works: you erode the tax base, which forces the introduction of user-pay measures, which erodes public services, which make people less collectively invested in their quality, which further erodes public services, until the government is so small you can fit it in your pocket. The bits you haven't already sold to your campaign contributors, I mean.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    (And since our media mistake "being fair and balanced" with "having no historical memory" the electorate needs to go through an injection of these policies every decade or so. Until they go - ah, yes, that's why we rejected them last time around!)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    (And since our media mistake "being fair and balanced" with "having no historical memory" the electorate needs to go through an injection of these policies every decade or so. Until they go - ah, yes, that's why we rejected them last time around!)

    However, the continual march away from public debate continues, and we're no better informed about the impact of any policy than we ever have been. And when pain is felt, the blame will be placed on some pathetic subsection of society which angst can be stirred up against.

    I don't think that society has any say in the matter. The next non-National Government will be elected when the business community decides they've had enough, and at that point the papers will come around as they did before Labour's election in 1999.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    Mark Bryers - multiple charges, $millions defrauded - sentence: fine + community service

    Palm Nth woman - defrauded WINZ of $39,000 - sentence: 8 months jail (2010)

    Southland couple - defrauded WINZ of $38,000+ - sentence: 8 months jail (2007)

    Where is the justice?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    $80 million defrauded.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    correction/addition to my post above - these charges for Bryers were for bad accounting, the SFO charges are yet to come.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Close-Up are just taking the piss. Four wealthy men selling the Budget to the rest of us.

    I think John Key is the token leftie in the discussion.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    the only one with hair

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    From a recent ABC Australia/Al Jazeera documentary:

    "The rich people don't pay taxes. There's an old saying in Greece – the more money you steal the better off you are. If you steal a few euros, a few hundred euros you go to jail ... you steal thousands of euros, we'll talk about it ... you steal a few million euros you become a hero"

    We don't fete all those who steal millions (although we've restored the Knighthood), but punishment is reserved for the unambitious.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    funded by pretending tomorrow will never come.

    Does anybody know of a lobby group for the taxpayers of 2035 or similar? Seriously - a media-savvy group that could actually point out the implications of policy and tax decisions for any 30 year old who actually intends to still be around NZ in their 50s could be quite effective. Let alone pointing out to the baby boomers what they're doing to their grandkids young adulthood...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1712 posts Report Reply

  • Thomas Johnson,

    So, whilst it is lovely if individuals, rich and poor, donate an extra proportion of their income to worthy causes we can only guarantee that this will be effective on a large and sustainable basis if everyone gets taxed on the same basis. There is no point in individuals "paying more" if they chose to do so, the marginal effect is negligible.

    So, what Julie is really saying is that since she wants to pay more tax, everyone else has to as well? I can see how well that line of argument will work. I guess we will all have to wait for the next leftwards election swing in 2017 or so to find out its true efficacy.

    I wish PAS had been around when Dr Cullen introduced the 39 cent rate back in 2000. No doubt it would have been cheers and beers all around.

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Mellopuffy,

    Personally i'm a bit worried. After 6 years of working towards a qualification (combined with beginning a family), next year is pegged for the final push (full time study for 18 months). I'll not have the time to do any paid work while doing the course. We'll be paying for 52 hrs a week ECE for our 2 1/2 yr old, (which I imagine will increase in cost as the centre we're applying to has a high ratio of qualified staff), minus whatever childcare subsidy we'll qualify for then. Despite the 'tax cuts', the increase in GST means I'm not overly confident as to how well we'll get by.

    Interestingly, when using the tax calculator linked to earlier, the difference in 'weekly income' clawed back for my partner and myself from the tax cut between this year while I'm earning ~$13K and next year when i'll be earning $0 is ~$1.50 a week. Why is this?

    Dunedin, NZ • Since Feb 2007 • 53 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    So, what Julie is really saying is that since she wants to pay more tax, everyone else has to as well. I can see how well that line of argument will work.

    It actually works quite well in many places actually. And it used to work here. What people "actually" want is contested, but there's research that shows that people want at least basic levels of Government social service provision and are prepared to pay taxes to fund those.

    It could work here too, if New Zealand's media wasn't all Tax Cuts!!! *Squee*!!!! There are real costs to these tax-cuts, in terms of services that will have to be cut. Unless you're Greek, you can't run up continued spending with an ever-shrinking tax base.

    Choose one, or choose the other. That's fair enough. What's not fair enough is National and the media presenting it as if there's nothing to be lost.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • Thomas Johnson,

    will be interesting to see how many parents are forced out of work by the cuts to childhood education subsidies.

    one of my workmates has decided against more children for that very reason.

    pity you can't just let the little fckers out to roam around a paddock like you can your average equine investment.

    How did people cope in all the generations before that particular Labour bribe anyway?

    Maybe they used rocking horses?

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    I wish PAS had been around when Dr Cullen introduced the 39 cent rate back in 2000. No doubt it would have been cheers and beers all around.

    Well it was a very clear election promise that they were going to introduce it, unlike the 'No increase in GST' that we heard from the Nats at the last election.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 195 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I've got to say, if you decide against having more children because they might cut the education subsidy, it's because you didn't want more children in the first place. I mean c'mon!

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    How did people cope in all the generations before that particular Labour bribe anyway?

    Historically, the working wage was sufficient to support a stay-at-home parent, almost always the mother. New Zealand had full employment. The DPB was introduced to support those few mothers who did not have a man supporting them.

    And then in the late 1980s-1990s, unemployment skyrocketed, the value of wages relative to essential goods (housing and food) decreased, and a lot of people didn't cope. That was my family's experience, anyway.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2077 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    So, what Julie is really saying is that since she wants to pay more tax, everyone else has to as well?

    No, she's saying that she reckons that people in her tax bracket *ought to* pay more tax. Not that hard a concept to grasp, I would have thought.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The other thing that is utterly depressing? The total invisibility in the MSM debate of anyone who isn't white and on $70K plus.

    What will it take for these people to notice the invisible? A Baader-Meinhof Group?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

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