OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Budget 2010: What’d you expect?

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  • Julie Fairey,

    Thanks for this Keith, sadly it seems to be truncated?!!!

    The tax cuts will mean more in my pocket on pay day, but the GST increase and the other increases in user charges will likely mean at best it's neutral for my family, although I'm personally in the top tax bracket. Frankly I'd much rather have a progressive tax system. I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

    I'm hanging out for info on the education stuff...

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    This is a tax cut for the rich, yes, but I struggle to get too worked up about it

    I'm happy for you. For my part, I know that each dollar saved by the top earners equals one dollar less in the already pitiful services available to my daughter - which were cleverly cut ahead of time to make it look like my family is a winner on budget day.

    Pity we don't have the memory of gnats.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    Ok, getting v depressed about the early childhood stuff now, which is basically a major blow to the sector as it means an end to funding incentives for services to have a high proportion of registered teachers (a key driver of quality).

    Can't bear to look at the other education stuff.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    There is a calculator at http://www.taxguide.govt.nz/ - it doesn't explain the math and assumptions behind it so treat it with a large grain of salt - it could also be considered propaganda ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2031 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I'm also very leery of this whole "if we don't give them tax cuts the rich will leave" argument - my argument is very simple: "no capital gains tax" - now if they'd traded that for lower taxes at the top end I might be cheering.

    The argument that Australia has lower taxes doesn't apply here either - the top marginal tax rates there are 45% (over $180k) [plus indirectly state payroll tax] - and capital gains are taxed at your marginal rate

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2031 posts Report Reply

  • Thomas Johnson,

    I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

    As with Sam Morgan, you are welcome to make additional direct payments

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    The Herald reports that a young person on an unemployment benefit will be about $1 a week better off.


    O rly? (see "Total Net Change" column).

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    As with Sam Morgan, you are welcome to make additional direct payments

    Oh fuck off already. (Not you, Mr. English.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    Actually Thomas you can't make additional tax payments, and I think we've had this argument here before, probably more than once. Mr Morgan has structured his financial affairs in such a way to dramatically minimise his tax liability and he can structure them differently to pay more tax. But most people, who are on PAYE, don't have that flexibility.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Thomas, reading your Stuff link, you seem to have omitted the very next sentence:

    "He could look to just write out a cheque to IRD. They won't send it back, they'll bank it," Mr English said yesterday. Though Mr Morgan probably did earn some income and pay some tax, the Government needed to make the system fairer so people were paying their fair share of tax, particularly if they had invested in property, he said.

    So I wouldn't be looking to Bill English to support your views.

    I think we can all imagine scenarios where we want to help but will only do so if everyone else helps too, yes?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2917 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    ponies :(

    i was expecting ponies.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    ponies :(

    i was expecting ponies.

    Well, use your extra money in the pocket to buy a pony on easy credit terms.

    But bear in mind that with the increase in gst on fodder, you may not be able to feed it. So unless you're buying it in order to make tasty pony stew in the stockpot, then it's not a good idea.

    However, if you're self-employed, you could use the pony as your work vehicle, and claim back the gst on fodder, plus write off the stabling costs against expenses, and have a nice little sideline in selling manure to the local garden centre. Quids in!

    That's the problem with this country. No entreprenurial vision.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2326 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    the already pitiful services available to my daughter - which were cleverly cut ahead of time to make it look like my family is a winner on budget day.

    I haven't delved into the disability support figures yet (let alone education, social development, etc), but off the top of my head an extra $93m in Vote Health over 4 years out of a 10-figure total for DSS services is a long way from even beginning to cover inflation, demographic shifts - and increased GST. In other words, expect ongoing decreases in service access, levels and quality.

    Funding through DHBs supposedly reflects adjustments for demography and inflation, but they only cover services for over-65s, not for nippers. Unless Ryall's mandated focus for DHBs shifts away from doctors operating on people, the recently publicised cuts to aged care services will probably continue.

    However, big ups to this govt for finally funding a public disability awareness campaign - all of $3m, but the previous lot refused even that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    I cannot believe how dishonest they have been about the early childhood education cuts. They're trying to say that the 20 Hours ECE scheme remains untouched, but for almost half the services they have cut the funding rates for the 20 Hours scheme from at least $11.42 per child per hour to a max of $10.88 per child per hour. And centres cannot recoup this loss (and cover any increased costs) through increasing parent fees as it remains illegal to charge fees to children accessing ECE under the 20 Hours scheme.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Breeding ponies. Still for stew, ultimately, yes, but one way to maximise your initial pony investment in the short term.

    Over here, George W Bush gave us a nice tax cut a couple of years ago. Ours went into the bank, but apparently everyone else went shopping, and the economy grew and grew and grew. Like a beanstalk. With a castle at the top. And we all lived happily ever after, I think? Or was that another story?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1408 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    That's the problem with this country. No entreprenurial vision.

    Unfortunately, David Harris was right.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    let that magical, wonderful beanstalk grow. apparently the castle is full of frolicking golden ponies.

    only 16% of macroeconomics are wrong, after all.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Frankly I'd much rather have a progressive tax system. I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

    Yeah, I keep hearing that but I don't actually believe it because all too often it seems to turn into "I'd be quite happy if someone else paid a lot more tax, and all the shit I care about gets a lot more money". Feh -- just give me my pony and a pot to cook it in.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    Plus the "cash reimbursement for unused staffing" for schools appears to be an incentive to increase class sizes.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Not only can we not know whether it’s real or not now, but we won’t know whether it’s real or not in 2013/14.

    So if they're right fine and dandy and if they're wrong we're F'd.

    So is it OK with them if we withhold their salaries until 2014 and if they're right they get paid? You know like performance based pay.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3217 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    Re: Decreased public spending, once again, what'd you expect:

    http://publicaddress.net/6331

    This is going to be the norm for the foreseeable future.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 530 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    My spreadsheet on distribution of the tax cuts is here.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1625 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    you’d only do it if you were deliberately trying to mislead

    OMG politician tries to mislead public! Pictures at 10.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3217 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    Craig I think you can colour me serious, I stood for the Alliance in two elections and was an active member of the party for seven years. One of my key reasons for doing so was their commitment to a progressive taxation system. Plus I'm currently in the top tax bracket.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    cut the funding rates for the 20 Hours scheme from at least $11.42 per child per hour to a max of $10.88 per child per hour

    But Julie, all those less-qualified early childhood education workers will be cheaper to hire. Bugger the quality, since when has ECE been a good investment for an ambitious nation? And there's nothing to stop "hard-working" kiwis from putting their kids into more expensive higher-quality facilities with all that tax cut money they now have sloshing around in their pockets.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

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