Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Future of the Future

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  • giovanni tiso,

    Boarder Patrol

    I am off to pitch this show - it's going to be great! Just think about it.

    Some quality trolling there Brickley, by the way, I take my hat off to you.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7412 posts Report Reply

  • Brickley Paiste,

    I am off to pitch this show - it's going to be great! Just think about it.

    Some quality trolling there Brickley, by the way, I take my hat off to you.

    Sorry, a typo. Mea culpa.

    Can I have a definition of trolling, please? Every time I come here with an interest in a debate I get accused of this because I don't take part in the overall self-congratulating backslapping that passes for debate in here.

    Hence: freeview recorder. Miles of free content, view at leisure, ads over in a blinding 16x FF flash.

    But: who's gonna pay for the content in the long run?

    Don't you have to buy that Freeview thing though?

    I didn't realise it was free content. Thanks.

    Since Mar 2009 • 163 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    Books do lots of things. Television doesn't. It asks nothing of you except that you not think.

    But what if one refuses to not think?

    When I watch television, I get involved. I'll pause to study a particular shot, rewind to relive a moment.

    Telelvision - both highbrow and trashy - gets me googling, sends me off to the library, gets me outside.

    If television is meant to be intellectually unengaging, then maybe I'm doing it wrong. But this is the way I enjoy television and learn from it and get extra depth and value.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1878 posts Report Reply

  • Brickley Paiste,

    @ Robyn:

    Agreed! Yes! I couldn't agree more!

    I do the same. I grew up doing the same. My folks would snigger at boom shadows and the like.

    HOWEVER, most people, I expect you to admit, do NOT do this.

    Lots of people...think what they see on TV is real. Ask the people that work at television listing magazines.

    I reckon that most people watch TV out of habit and that means without thinking. It's like smoking cigarettes.

    Since Mar 2009 • 163 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Can I have a definition of trolling, please? Every time I come here with an interest in a debate I get accused of this because I don't take part in the overall self-congratulating backslapping that passes for debate in here.

    Now, don't be like that.

    I don't think you were doing anything like trolling.

    But, only because you asked, I think you tend to enter with thunderous judgements and strong statements in a tone that implies a strong response, especially when, as in the case of today's, there are some flaws in your argument.

    But I am genuinely glad to see you back.

    Trolling? To me, it's about participating in a discussion in bad faith; looking to play the discussion in some way rather than merely contribute to it. You weren't doing that, but sniping about "self-congratulating backslapping" isn't really helpful. You know it's more than that.

    That all said, I'm a fan of vigorous argument, and I really enjoy the fact that I can argue tetchily with Craig or Gio or anyone else on one thread and be giving them a manly backrub on the next.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19116 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I am off to pitch this show - it's going to be great! Just think about it.

    Here are the opening teases for Boarder Patrol...

    Tonight on Boarder Patrol:

    - Mrs Watkins has words with Tony. "I know I said you could help yourself to the Weetbix, but half a box a day is too much!"

    - The Williamsons face a tough decision. "We're actually thinking of putting Pam's overlocker on Trade Me and getting a boarder in the sewing room."

    - And Dave faces his future. "It's been great staying with Noelene, but I probably will not be able to find a partner unless I have a place of my own."

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1878 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Boarder Patrol

    If I had been quicker off the mark, I would have asked if this was the sequel to Flatmates.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Tonight on Boarder Patrol:

    Eerily accurate.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Imagine if Goebbels saw this? He'd have a boner for months.

    But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all...

    Television was possible during the rise of the Third Reich but early developments were diverted into radar technology, which was more immediately useful, Nevertheless, one does wonder if television footage of the Nazi build-up might have drawn the US into the war earlier.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2342 posts Report Reply

  • Brickley Paiste,

    Now, don't be like that.

    I don't think you were doing anything like trolling.

    But, only because you asked, I think you tend to enter with thunderous judgements and strong statements in a tone that implies a strong response, especially when, as in the case of today's, there are some flaws in your argument.

    But I am genuinely glad to see you back.

    Trolling? To me, it's about participating in a discussion in bad faith; looking to play the discussion in some way rather than merely contribute to it. You weren't doing that, but sniping about "self-congratulating backslapping" isn't really helpful. You know it's more than that.

    That all said, I'm a fan of vigorous argument, and I really enjoy the fact that I can argue tetchily with Craig or Gio or anyone else on one thread and be giving them a manly backrub on the next.

    Ok. I make arguments for a living and I know ad hominem ones are fallacious by definition. Others do not.

    I suppose your explanation gives a vague definition of trolling.

    I'd like to think good faith (rather than bad faith) is merely about reasonable expectations.

    I'm not sure you can reasonably expect people to argue without trying to "play" the argument to their advantage. Arguing is about winning.

    I'm still interested in what Robyn has to say.

    Most people don't watch TV like we do.

    Since Mar 2009 • 163 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    and I really enjoy the fact that I can argue tetchily with Craig or Gio or anyone else on one thread and be giving them a manly backrub on the next.

    Golly, so that's what the kids are calling it nowadays. :)

    Anyway, if we're talking about the future of television I think various other folks are quite right that TVNZ and Mediaworks (or whatever comes next) are going to have to widen their field of vision. It's not going to be that long before most people in this city are going to look at Packed to the Rafters and Coronation Street (or Shortland Street and Go Girls) with the same quizzical incomprehension as you would finding a pack of men in caftans chanting Homer in the original in primetime. It's only going to need imagination and vision on the commissioning tip, but time and effort put into forming relationships beyond Australia, the US and UK. They can either catch up with reality, or die -- and deservedly so.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12073 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I think that a licensing fee will be coming back in some form or other for FTA TV, and I too am completely willing to pay it.

    How would that work? Video entertainment nowadays gets to people through a whole range of channels - would any kind of device (computer, smartphone, TV) result in having to pay a levy? It'd basically be a poll tax, so why not just fund public service broadcasting out of general taxation?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4501 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    I reckon that most people watch TV out of habit and that means without thinking. It's like smoking cigarettes.

    I dunno. There's a lot of media education going on out there at the mo.

    For my own part, I can watch Coro St and enjoy it while at the same time analysing (and despairing at) the soap opera logic and treasuring some of the artfully written lines.

    OTOH, watching The Wire on DVD (finished a month ago) has spoilt me for just about everything else and I'm just starting to descend to Coro level again. People have said this already but The Wire proves how wonderful TV can be. A 2 - 3 hour film could never deliver the richness that is The Wire:)

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    If television is meant to be intellectually unengaging, then maybe I'm doing it wrong.

    Clearly.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7412 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Well, so far the first ten minutes if "Cheers for fifty years" is complete rubbish. Thanks TVNZ for making a show that is the equivalent of offering some chips and a litre of orange juice at someones fiftieth anniversary on the job.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1824 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Well, so far the first ten minutes if "Cheers for fifty years" is complete rubbish. Thanks TVNZ for making a show that is the equivalent of offering some chips and a litre of orange juice at someones fiftieth anniversary on the job.

    Running the long history of public broadcasting through a gameshow format hosted by Jason Gunn -- kind of says it all. Typical question: "What planet was Mork from?" Jesus wept.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Exemplifies ignorant contempt for their own cultural form

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    If you haven't already, do read the link Rob posted earlier about Cognitive Surplus.

    It's a brilliant and concise intro about the biggest difference between television past and visual culture future - our role as active creators rather than passive consumers. Of course, some of us maintain there's never been such a thing as passive..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Samuel Scott,

    We got a VCR when I was about 5. It had a remote (attached by a cable). It blew my young mind. Not only that, it came with a free copy of Star Wars! Which I decided to watch every day for a year thus ensuring I would be a nerd forever.

    I am avoiding the temptation to watch Thingy host Dancing With The Shortland Street.

    South Wellington • Since Feb 2008 • 305 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    The TVNZ programme really is bloody awful. As I pointed out above, it is more than a little ironic that Prime is screening a 7-part doco series later this month (which TVNZ apparently passed on ), whilst TVNZ serves us up this mess.

    It's a brilliant and concise intro about the biggest difference between television past and visual culture future - our role as active creators rather than passive consumers. Of course, some of us maintain there's never been such a thing as passive..

    I can see what you are suggesting Sacha but I have been greatly swayed recently by Graeme Turner's new book Ordinary People and The Media: The Demotic Turn. He argues that much of the talk about the democratisation of the media (as 'produsers' or 'prosumers') is rushing far ahead of any convincing evidence of substantial change. He also argues that many of us are colluding in the interests of established media by supplying free content for them, and that the great majority (more than 80%) of blogging is anti-democratic in nature*, through its encouragement of bigotry and intolerance. It is not an alarmist book but a carefully considered analysis.
    * obviously PAS is a notable exception

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2342 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    The TVNZ programme really is bloody awful.

    I don't know; I would've liked it... if I was seven.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    So what do we all think of Coronation Street's new titles and -- gasp! -- re-recorded theme tune?

    If it's only just happened in the UK then we won't have to worry about it for another 18 months. They're only just going into the recession in the episodes showing here. But it's these subtle changes that are just enough to update but not scare off the loyal viewers that have been part of the C St success. But I'm not one of those dedicated viewers who can't bear to miss an episode. I just like the fact that it is there if and when you need it, unlike so much else in the world.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2157 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    We got a VCR when I was about 5. It had a remote (attached by a cable).

    That reminds me of our first VCR. It was a Beta - higher quality, you see.

    It had a pause button on a cable, but not other remote controls. I remember when you paused it, it gave a really crisp click - like there were some serious mechanical operation going on in there, possibly steam powered.

    But I still recorded songs off Ready To Roll by holding a tape recorder up to the TV speaker and telling everyone else to BE QUIET.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1878 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Geoff, that sounds like an interesting read. I reckon demographics matter (as do other aspects of the digital divide). As a generalisation, the way young people interact with media seems different than for their grandparents - who are still driving a big part of the market, although it's fragmenting.

    Which is another big shift in itself - long gone are the days when everyone could talk about the one or two shows that were the only choice on telly last night.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    There is no general community any more, as far as ANZ television is concerned. And wont be again.
    There are many separate-interest areas.
    I have Sky budget channel (because there are some programmes others i te whanau relish.) And, it's the only way I can watch Maori TV in my area.)

    So - it'll all slide over nto the Net/private sattelites/small dedicated local channels/very specialist tightly funded feeds quite soon - I think.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

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