Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: A few (more) words on The Hobbit

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  • Russell Brown,

    And from memory Russell was amongst the first to reveal that the risk was very real. Without asking him to reveal his source, I'd be curious to know if it was a party that could possibly have an interest in fostering that perception.

    Let's just say it was the chatter in the production community, and I don't think people were saying so in bad faith. At the same time, Disney was indicating to local people that it was having its doubts about producing in New Zealand, which was probably the reason they were taking Warners seriously.

    Whether Warners was genuinely looking elsewhere or just looking to put the shits up certain people -- either could be true -- the bids by other territories were real and I don't think Jackson et al were lying about what they'd been told by Warners.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    How can anyone really know except the executives themselves? But it seems highly plausible. Once you're back at the negotiating table, every factor comes into play. To even begin negotiating again was always going to be a bad deal for NZ, because of the movement of our dollar. Could have just been an excuse, using the union action, to do this. Believable. If they didn't have that excuse, it might not have happened, but they could have been waiting hopefully for any excuse. We'll probably never know.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Cox,

    One strange thing that happened was an article on a news website I linked to way back on Oct8 on 'irish central' which had the headline

    "Peter Jackson's the Hobbit will Film in Ireland"

    I went back to look at it again, about 2 days later, and it had been taken down off the site. Never a report mentioning the same thing since. Odd.

    The only remnant I can find is here:

    http://www.irishcentral.com/mailings/3269527.html

    "Peter Jackson’s ‘The Hobbit’ will film in Ireland
    Thursday, October 7, 2010, 5:21 AM
    The big budget production of the JRR Tolkien classic, The Hobitt could move filming to Ireland because of an ongoing dispute. The Irish Film Board (IFB) have confirmed they have been in contact with producers of the troubled production about potentially moving filming to Ireland.

    Click for Full Story (link missing) "

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Here's more some of the story, cached from IMDB:

    Peter Jackson’s ‘The Hobbit’ will film in Ireland (IrishCentral)

    7 October 2010 5:21 AM, PDT

    The big budget production of the Jrr Tolkien classic, The Hobitt could move filming to Ireland because of an ongoing dispute. The Irish Film Board (Ifb) have confirmed they have been in contact with producers of the troubled production about potentially moving filming to Ireland. "We are following a line of enquiry on the project," an Ifb spokesperson told the Irish Examiner. The project which is currently filming in New Zealand had aimed to bring two movies to the big screen in 2010 and 2013. A dispute between film unions, financial setbacks and withdrawal of staff have all contributed to ongoing production delays. The three potential new locations include Scotland, Canada and Ireland. The Irish Film and Television Network (Iftn) were also happy to hear about such a potential windfall for the Irish film industry. "It’s all very early days for The Hobbit but Ireland would be a fantastic location for it. »"

    The fact that the IFB acknowledged talks with the producers does tend to suggest the possibility of a move was seriously explored.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Re: Irish Central. It's the old emphatic headline, less emphatic story trick.

    I thought Gordon Campbell had a good point in one of his Hobbit posts on the threat of the project being taken offshore:

    There seems to have been no attempt to call Warners’ bluff and use the one factor – time – where we actually had Warners over a barrel. Time was always working in our favour when it came to the final decision about where The Hobbit would be shot. Shooting always had to begin in February if Warners/MGM were going to meet their deadline of getting the first film into theatres by December 2012, and the second film by December 2013. Even though the raw numbers stacked up better to do the film elsewhere, Warners simply didn’t have enough time left to uproot the project, and still be ready to start shooting in February ...

    Going elsewhere would have meant Warners uprooting its star director, who reportedly hadn’t much enjoyed the experience of shooting part of The Lovely Bones in Pennsylvania. Jackson would have had no desire to live in Ireland for the next two years – not in the least because of the havoc his enforced absence would have wreaked on the ability of Weta to attract other projects in the meantime, with related damage to Weta’s image as a one-stop shop headed by Jackson, and at the forefront of the FX game.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Cox,

    Re: Irish Central. It's the old emphatic headline, less emphatic story trick.

    Sure, but the thing that got me wondering was why they pulled the whole story 2 days later?

    And yeah, that whole particular article is excellent.

    @Simon. First time I've seen that video. So in a nutshell: they didn't want to renegotiate the pink book because it wasn't legally binding. :/ So they went to arrange legally biding contracts with individual producers, exactly like they did with the Hobbit? That kinda seems to be the gist of it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Bennett,

    @Peter - yes, you got it. Though no individual producer could offer an 'industry wide' contract. And collective bargaining is unlawful for independent contractors.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 174 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Cox,

    *sigh*

    People had been telling me that was their position, but I figured that couldn't be exactly right... but there it is on the website...

    Do you know if there was ever any discussion of employee vs independent contractor status?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Going elsewhere would have meant Warners uprooting its star director, who reportedly hadn’t much enjoyed the experience of shooting part of The Lovely Bones in Pennsylvania. Jackson would have had no desire to live in Ireland for the next two years – not in the least because of the havoc his enforced absence would have wreaked on the ability of Weta to attract other projects in the meantime, with related damage to Weta’s image as a one-stop shop headed by Jackson, and at the forefront of the FX game.

    Because it's not like they could just assign direction to someone else.

    Or Jackson could relocate all his businesses to Europe.

    This makes Campbell seem remarkably thick. Perhaps there's a reason one of the people in that article is a multimillionaire film producer/director/special effects studio owner and the other is a journo.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    A firm belief that the studio would never take filming to another location seems to have underpinned decisions and writing from some during the dispute.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Pat Hackett,

    Another summary today at an industry webiste The Big Idea by Steve Hart:

    http://www.thebigidea.co.nz/news/industry-news/2010/nov/76976-concerning-hobbits

    Some good quotes from Helen Kelly and Tim Clarke, and also a "Hollywood insider" (very New Idea-ish, that).

    Auckland • Since Oct 2010 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    One strange thing that happened was an article on a news website I linked to way back on Oct8 on 'irish central' which had the headline

    "Peter Jackson's the Hobbit will Film in Ireland"

    I went back to look at it again, about 2 days later, and it had been taken down off the site. Never a report mentioning the same thing since. Odd.

    And Dewey defeated Truman.

    Seriously though, as posted on the Pundit.co.nz column, it illustrates a wider race-to-the-bottom malaise with seemingly no end in sight. Short of an Icelandic solution.

    Who the hell exactly are we competing with for wages anyway? Australia or Indonesia? Somehow NZ Inc in its current form wants it both ways. And if workers get uppity? State-imposed wage freezes have been successfully outsourced to Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt Inc.

    As it stands, NZ Inc is in real danger of becoming like the Cooks & Stewards et al it purportedly despised.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    As it stands, NZ Inc is in real danger of becoming like the Cooks & Stewards et al it purportedly despised.

    Hang on, is that this case here? I thought - and I've not followed the thread closely recently - that the wages paid were competitive internationally? Is your point about the additional inducements?

    I certainly agree that a low-wage, low-value added economy is no future for NZ (but rapidly developing an ETM industry is a stretch) however, I'd thought the film industry in NZ was established because of its unique and innovative services as well as scenery and talent? If that's the case, I'm not sure how we're heading towards being the Cooks?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Cooks and Stewards union, not Cook Islands

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    @ Paul W: Granted, the film sector seems to be a unique standout. Racing to the bottom is an issue that goes far beyond the film sector, but rather the wider NZ political economy as a whole.

    It's a sad state of affairs when for every Sam Morgan and Peter Jackson, there are dozens of Fay Richwhites.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Hmm, Hart doesn't seem to have realised that NZAE is actually part of the MEAA, but it's not too bad as a once-over-lightly piece

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Cooks and Stewards union, not Cook Islands

    Thanks for clarifying, I'm still not sure I understand DeepRed's argument though? If wages weren't the issue here really - and I think I now understand they weren't even for the actors themselves - then how are we on a race to the bottom - surely not in film?

    Incidentally, I don't know the export value of NZ film and TV but I do know I've enjoyed noticing more and more NZ TV and film in Australia - bro'town, Gormsby and OF for instance and Boy was playing at a number of cinemas near me. Perhaps we're not far from the point where Australian actors come to NZ to make themselves?

    Edit:

    @ Paul W: Granted, the film sector seems to be a unique standout. Racing to the bottom is an issue that goes far beyond the film sector, but rather the wider NZ political economy as a whole.

    Thanks for this, I'm still not sure I agree. Tourism is low-wage, low-value add and high impact but we've got to do it. Our low trade-intensity is a function of the mix of exports - commodities largely - but I'm far more optimistic about the future of our food industry particularly. It's been a while since I was closely involved, but the Seafood industry was one I had some engagement with and it was incredibly innovative and competitive.

    It's a sad state of affairs when for every Sam Morgan and Peter Jackson, there are dozens of Fay Richwhites.

    Hell yes!

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Healing hobbit hui in the offing following Spada conference. Peter Elliot promises to wear trousers this time.

    He said the impact of the conflict was unexpected.

    "Emotions exploded," he said.

    "Now everyone is aware of how to play this game. It was a wake-up call."

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Herald posts 18 minute embedded clip of part of the Spada session Russell chaired. Includes exchange with actors' agent Graham Dunster and interview of him and Robyn Malcom afterwards by Hugh Sundae

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Bennett,

    Graham and Robyn claim to hear admission of culpability from SPADA over poor communication. I was there and didn't hear any such thing.

    The producers are accused of not treating actors with respect. However. I'm hearing producers regarded by actors as the evil bosses. They're just people, trying to get programmes and films made.

    Graham's point about analysis of failure and learning from mistakes in terms of less than successful films and TV programmes is a good one. But I fail to see what relevance this has to the current dispute.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 174 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    You all seem like good people so I’m hoping trust and good feeling is restored over the coming while

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Bryce Edwards rounds up cartoon coverage of Te Hobbit dispute.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    They’re just people, trying to get programmes and films made.

    We're all "just people". Please don't try and make each other's profession more of an issue than it already is.

    Graham’s point about analysis of failure and learning from mistakes in terms of less than successful films and TV programmes is a good one.

    Im sure producers dont make programmes wondering if they have making a mistake. Well maybe, in the dead of night when doubt gnaws at their bones. Do many producers get that?
    But lets take one good example "The Cult" good production values, good acting and locations.Ok the dramatic tension wasn't really there. But the real problem, the subject matter would have been a winner 10 - 20 yrs ago, but it just wasn't going to fly from the first episode. Dead in the water. Now you will no doubt disagree - I hope you don't tho - cause that is a problem.
    And it's going to get worse. I don't envy producers in the coming years as taste's (in the developed world) get ever more sophisticated, while to make a TV program for FTA prime time finding a way through broadcasting standards must be a nightmare. Especially when it comes to drama, 'cause humans are such messy creatures. I guess that's the rubbernecking appeal of it.
    Films- different creature and for the time being I'll just say. To make a, what I would classify as a good film. A producer really has to bite the hand that feeds, (to put it euphemistically) with the subject matter. That's if you aren't making a "franchised film" shudder...Is that the art of a producer? or one of the many arts... I dont know.
    Sorry vanity has got the better of me today, so I wont show my age by linking to what I classify as a good film.
    These wacky times

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Bennett,

    They’re just people, trying to get programmes and films made.

    We’re all “just people”. Please don’t try and make each other’s profession more of an issue than it already is.

    I was (maybe ineptly) trying to make the point that stereotyping people who make programmes and films into 'bosses' and 'workers' may not be the most helpful way to go.

    It's a tiny industry. Very few are getting rich off the back of it. Most do it because they are passionate about it. This goes for all practitioners: from producer, to writer, to actor, to camera assistant.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 174 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Sorry I wasn't trying to negate your point. To get things done we have to organise and we all cant be "chiefs".
    And the polarising boss/worker rhetoric that someone (i cant remember who, sorry didnt care enough to find out) bought to the fiasco that was Te hobbit. Well for me showed the divisions deepening in NZ society.
    As an observer I was just saddened.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

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