Speaker by Various Artists

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Speaker: My People

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  • Jan Farr,

    Great post Jackie!

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 394 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    No offence taken, Sally. At all. I'm only academic in so far as I have a BA and that was attained many years ago. I keep current with theory around teaching and early childhood education specifically, but that's it. That's why I find the discussions this community has very edifying. I don't have to do the study, I just have to read the results!

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Can I just say, also, that you have all made this first time posting thing very easy? It's been a bit overwhelming to realise that people are actually interested in what I have to say. And a bit humbling too. It gives me a very great appreciation for what Russell, and the rest of our regular bloggers do.
    I have always believed that you have to be careful with whatever words you put out there. You never know where they are going to fall. So thanks everyone for letting mine fall softly.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • sally jones,

    Bart: As I understand it we have been funding early childhood education and care quite well in this country until recently with the subsidies cut by the present government.
    I don't think it's a question of dividing up the same pool of money between those with and those without children, or comparing their value. If a certain number of hours of funding is allocated to early childhood services for each child this doesn't advantage one group of adults over another. It merely advantages children. There is still a considerable shortfall in the funds required to raise children for those adults engaged in the job compared with those not, which is how it should be, as those raising children have in most cases freely chosen to do so.
    But the fact that we're stuffed as a society if no-one makes this choice, or if there is a substantial reduction in the number of people who continue to make this choice - likely in part as a response to the growing cost of raising children, including childcare and education - justifies spending public funds in these areas. Moreover, without these funds the state is in some degree functioning in a parasitic and exploitative relationship with parents by taking their care-giving for granted while allocating public funds to pay for all sorts of other, arguably less important, forms of labour. This is wrong, and yet it was the way of the western world until relatively recently. Of course none of this helps in determining how much funding per child.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2010 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • sally jones,

    Jackie: Oh I'm glad. Hopefully this is the first of many posts.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2010 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    What do people think about married couples who are both unemployed most of the time but continue to add to their family despite the fact they are already in state housing (3 bedrooms for 8 of them - by choice as it's cheaper) and can't afford to replace the broken windows in their vehicle or put child seats in it?

    I'm referring to my neighbours who have six kids under the age of nine and are about to add a seventh. They do a good job of looking after and caring for them in a basic sense but there comes a point in time when the hole gets dug too deep.

    I agree with the sentiments of Jackie's original post. I teach kids from all walks of life, parents in prison, parents on drugs, kids on drugs, in gangs, violent bullying thugs, in over crowded houses, who's idea of a holiday would be staying at their cousins house across town, and idea of entertainment is a fight at lunchtime where somebody got knocked out, and the majority of them are essentially nice kids...

    Sadly far too many of them are caught in the poverty trap without developing the basic educational tools (academic and behavioural) to fight their way out. By the time Year 11, 12, 13 roll around the ships sailed.

    Since Nov 2006 • 876 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Just popping in for a moment, because I wanted to share a TED talk with you. It's off-topic, but it's still relevant, imo. I felt that it fit with Jacqui's original post very well. It's a wonderful talk about worthiness, vulnerability, connection and love. What it means to be whole hearted.

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    @ Che

    i know the boy is there somewhere in the room with me,... he needs me no longer.

    This,
    Poetry.
    Missing you and your words which, you just brought to light .and it took a fine woman. :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6269 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Sadly far too many of them are caught in the poverty trap without developing the basic educational tools (academic and behavioural) to fight their way out. By the time Year 11, 12, 13 roll around the ships sailed.

    Hey sorry Yamis but, isn't that where we figure out that your job (as a teacher iiirc) is (huge part of community) important? You are probably the most connected person to them, outside their families. This is why I value teachers of any age student, so highly. Education is the be all and end all. Choice is important.
    Seriously , imo ,your neighbours are doing their best and in the grand scheme of things, who are we to judge? They just sound like many other peoples who live beyond their means, Different strokes.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6269 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    I'm not of the mind that we pay parents - solo or duo - lots more money to raise their children. Yes, it is very, very tight when you're unemployed and on a DPB, and a bit more would definitely ease the load. Trust me, I know - I have a now 3 month old washing machine repair bill that I am having real trouble saving up to pay, and I know that the serviceman needs his money, too, it ain't easy for him, either! - But what I would like to see are more support services. More drop in centres, with social workers and school homework helpers; more free budget services around low income areas; more green spaces (maybe even with community vege gardens) and better communal playground areas and sports fields; district nurses doing the rounds again; supported community centres with cheap/free exercise groups and 'healthy cooking on a budget' lessons; safe and healthy evening/weekend entertainment ('blue light discos' and the like) - more uplifting, genuinely helpful stuff and a lot less cheap booze shops. Lift people up, help them smile and be whole within a community, give them what they need to contribute and engage and reap the benefits of that engagement in a positive and law-abiding way.

    Also, wish me luck. I went for 4 job interviews today. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Had to go back and see what Che had written. I've never read anything by him (her?) before. Yes, poetry. And s/he *gets* it. A striking image. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Luck!

    and there's a TEDx global site now, for fans

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16772 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Oh, I so wanted to go to the one in Auckland recently. Did you go?

    Thanks for the link, Sacha. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    What do people think about married couples who are both unemployed most of the time but continue to add to their family despite the fact they are already in state housing...

    Hi Yamis: the trouble is, when you start to pass judgement on individuals it's hard not to turn that into a generalisation - 'all unemployed couples in state houses who have large families are very, very naughty'.

    It's great that your neighbours are doing a good job - maybe they'll produce really good citizens, who understand life from the inside.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 394 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Did you go?

    Yep

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16772 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Luck-eee! :-)

    (I'll stop there so as not to hijack the thread any more than I already have. Even though I have sooo many questions!)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    It's great that your neighbours are doing a good job - maybe they'll produce really good citizens, who understand life from the inside.

    Plus, life is so unpredictable. I live in a bit of a rough area, and one of the girls in the next street over used to play netball with my daughter. Her dad's a "Mongie" and her oldest brother in prison. She's working hard at school so she can go to med school and help her own people. She's awesome!

    And then, on the more privileged end of the social spectrum, is ..well, to use a well-known example, Millie Holmes. She "had it all": rich dad, good looks, great employment connections...but she's screwed up and losing it all. And even one or two members of our finger-pointing political class are criminals.

    You never can tell.

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Ae, Petra - life is unpredictable, random, chancy, totally uncertain-

    one part of my ancestry, Vikings from the Orkneys, purported to worship various gods (mainly aspects of nature.) The one true -element - rather than god/ess- they actually worshipped was luck...

    If you read saga, again and again, 'luck' is what a person/hero/god has - or doesnt.

    And I think that is true. You either have luck - or not.


    And, of course, LUCK is *completely random, chancy, totally uncertain.*

    Summation - let's help one another whenever we can-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Yeah, luck. Which comes and goes, just like it did with the gods and goddesses. Thanks, I just had one of those "a ha" moments, re legend and mythology. Cool.

    So turns the wheel of fortune...

    "Help". One of of english's lovelier words. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    How can *we*?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    I don't truly know, Islander. By kindly allowing others to ask us for help, and also by asking them for help, too, I guess. I'll have to sleep on it for now. It's quite a big question, isn't it? With no clear cut answers...

    I have to crash for now. G'night, sleep tight. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Nighty ra Petra - just after I listened to that track,(excellent), something (well, actually, a heavy slice) crashed out of my cooking tool rack and killed one of my favourite glasses (irreplaceable.)

    Shit.

    Luck, luck, luck

    -it was never always good-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Yamis, I find your question pretty scary.

    The question itself is an oblique angle on the abortion law.

    I don't wish to get into this conversation other than to sign post it.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1147 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Vikings from the Orkneys, purported to worship various gods (mainly aspects of nature.)

    including otters...?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5062 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    I don't think it's a question of dividing up the same pool of money between those with and those without children, or comparing their value.

    With any finite pool of money if you make decision to fund one thing then you are by default choosing not to fund something else. Inherent in that decision is a value judgement. There is nothing wrong with making value judgements. My problem is when people make decisions without taking the time to make the value judgement.

    But before we start making those judgements we need to accept that we must have a bigger pool of money. And that means more tax. Anyone advocating user pays is simply saying poor people don't deserve to have good child care etc which is also a value judgement (one that says rich people are more important).

    You seem to be interpreting my comment as saying we shouldn’t fund early childcare because some people don’t have children and hence they get nothing. That is not at all what I believe, as a non-parent I desperately want the very best education for children, including pre-school. It is simple logic for me that says those children need to be productive and creative in order to keep me in my dotage. But more importantly it is simple morality that demands those children be given the best care possible. That said there are childless families who need and deserve care as well.

    But the fact that we're stuffed as a society if no-one makes this choice, or if there is a substantial reduction in the number of people who continue to make this choice

    This is something that gets said a lot. Essentially the thesis is that if we don’t keep growing our population then we can’t keep growing our productivity. It is a holdover from manual labour days and the times (and places) when children died a lot. The idea that the planet can sustain a continually growing population has been well and truly debunked. But the economic ideas around growth have yet to adapt.

    I believe we can have a healthy productive society that does not have a continually growing population, I actually believe we must find a way to do that or the planet is stuffed. That means having families with one or no children accepted as normal and valued. A declining population is not something to be feared, but included in that is that those children we do have should be cared for as best we can and we'll need more money in the pool to do that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3420 posts Report Reply

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