Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: New Old Left?

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  • 3410,

    Hey, Ben.
    Drop me an email, if you would, please.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    I find the ones who party voted Labour but gave electorate vote to Hide the most confused.

    People who liked Labour but thought Hide was an effective local advocate engaged with his community who had done a good job as local MP. What's confusing about that?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Wonder if Epsom will still see him in the same light after being caught with his hand in the till? All the more so because he normally pontificates about fiscal restraint.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    WTF???

    I'd imagine there's a fair few Act voters who believe in the party's principles (economic liberalism, reduced taxes etc), but not in some of the places that Hide has taken it (perkbusting while taking perks, SST, 3 strikes crime law etc).

    It strikes me as a pretty divided party.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6148 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    I'd imagine there's a fair few Act voters who believe in the party's principles (economic liberalism, reduced taxes etc), but not in some of the places that Hide has taken it (perkbusting while taking perks, SST, 3 strikes crime law etc).

    It strikes me as a pretty divided party.

    Would there be much of a political market for a Lib-Dems type party? In other words, the social policy of Labour or the Greens, and the economic policy of Peter Dunne or Winston Peters.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Hey, Ben.
    Drop me an email, if you would, please.

    Dropped.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    People who liked Labour but thought Hide was an effective local advocate engaged with his community who had done a good job as local MP. What's confusing about that?

    The fact that it meant that Labour would lose power, by aiding ACT in passing the threshold. But yes, there is an argument to vote that way. They liked Hide, and Labour, and it didn't really bother them that the two are in direct conflict. A bob each way?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Would there be much of a political market for a Lib-Dems type party? In other words, the social policy of Labour or the Greens, and the economic policy of Peter Dunne or Winston Peters.

    Oh, that's what they promise - but when they go into coalition, it turns into the social policy of Thatcher, and the economic policy of Thatcher.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1625 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Would there be much of a political market for a Lib-Dems type party?

    The Fitzsimmons/Donald/Tancos Greens actually had that nailed down fairly nicely in many ways.

    Oh, that's what they promise - but when they go into coalition, it turns into the social policy of Thatcher, and the economic policy of Thatcher.

    And yet rolling back Labour's human rights abuses, more traction on electoral reform than Labour had after spending the 90s promising it, and no illegal wars started.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Yeah, must be great being British, you have not just one Tory party to vote for, not two, but three!

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4361 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    And yet rolling back Labour's human rights abuses, more traction on electoral reform than Labour had after spending the 90s promising it, and no illegal wars started.

    That's right: it's totally cool to leave the poor and disabled to suffer as long as you don't start any actual shooting wars while doing so.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2092 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Cutting early childhood education and older people's homecare must have been what NZ voters wanted.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16277 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    That’s right: it’s totally cool to leave the poor and disabled to suffer as long as you don’t start any actual shooting wars while doing so.

    So, Lucy, did the wealth gaps in the UK narrow or widen under Blair?

    Or are you arguing, like the Chinese government, that the poor shouldn't worry their pretty little heads about detention without trial for months on end, for example, as long as there's rice in the bowl?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Sacha @ yip That's what a
    Representative Domocracy does well.
    Oh hang on ....

    But then you knew that.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1144 posts Report Reply

  • Jonse, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    I agree to a certain point that the Green leadership isn't performing - but as a Green member I have started losing faith in the membership itself.

    I am still astounded that the Wellington Central electorate has decided to replace one of the last of the 'old guard' with a candidate that has worked as a consultant for some of the most unethical companies around including Bayer (who invests in GE), Royal Bank of Scotland (invests in tar sands extraction in Canada) and Tescos (greenwasherof distinction).

    But maybe the weakness in the Green leadership - failing to pushforward with a principled, staunch, unapologetic pro-environmental and social justice stance has filtered down to the membership? Or is it the other way around??

    Either way - a new left party isn't looking like a bad idea.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Or are you arguing, like the Chinese government, that the poor shouldn’t worry their pretty little heads about detention without trial for months on end, for example, as long as there’s rice in the bowl?

    I'm not familiar enough with the domestic policy of Blair's government (which wasn't, in the last election, seeing as he'd quit) to comment, though I'm willing to accept they may have been entirely unhelpful in that regard. But that doesn't mean that what the ConDems are doing - which is nothing short of an outright economic attack on anyone who can't fight back - is acceptable, just because they're not Blair. Rather the opposite.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2092 posts Report Reply

  • sally jones, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    There are a number of people close to the Greens who would like to see Bradford start a proper social justice party

    Apologies, I haven't read the discussion in full.

    Ever since she left parliament I have considered Bradford a promising candidate to lead a revamped Labour Party. This is a bit out of left field I realise, but if they could get along, Bradford and Goff might team up well: one centre-left, one clear left.

    Gender-shared leadership is the future of political parties IMO. The Greens figured that out already. Goff and Bradford would provide ideological balance. Goff is struggling to maintain a consistent and strong following, partly because of his record in the 4th Labour govt (yes?). Bradford's left credentials are comparatively impeccable. Meanwhile, Goff's presence could work as a moderating influence on Bradford's so called 'extremism' (anti-smacking). Goff is calm and experienced to Bradford's passion and commitment to social justice. They could work well together. Just a thought. Of course, they're gonna love the idea.
    Not sure about Harawira. He and Turia could co-share leadership of the Maori Party (if they could get on). Sharples might be too pragmatic for these pioneering times. Just a/another thought (JAT).

    Auckland • Since Sep 2010 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Bradford-Goff would have the small problem of once a week Sue being dragged out of Goff's office having occupied it.

    They're a long way apart on the political spectrum.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6148 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    Be fun to watch, though...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1768 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to sally jones,

    Goff’s presence could work as a moderating influence on Bradford’s so called ‘extremism’ (anti-smacking). Goff is calm and experienced to Bradford’s passion and commitment to social justice. They could work well together.

    Like gay rights, the rights of children is only an issue for the reactionary fringe. Key has demonstrated that he understands this, Goff has shown a willingness to pander to reactionaries who don't matter. Sue Bradford working in some capacity with Key is probably a more realistic prospect than some dodgy deal with a man who only wishes that he was John Key.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3326 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to sally jones,

    This is a bit out of left field I realise, but if they could get along, Bradford and Goff might team up well: one centre-left, one clear left.

    You must be kidding. We'd have to spend the entire elctoral cycle whistling the theme from The Odd Couple, for one thing. For another, Goff has repeatedly blamed Labour's loss in the last election to Clark's inability to silence Sue Bradford. Albeit not in so many words.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I see a lucrative global reality tv franchise in the offing

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16277 posts Report Reply

  • Brendon Mills,

    *just to show that I am not soley into trolling about hobbits*

    A new left wing party. Sounds good, I would vote for it.

    But for a left party to have a half-pie chance of succeeding, it needs to broaden its appeal to beyond ban-the-bomb-and-stop-the-tour-types who attend Das Kapital book discussion groups in university cafes, yes I am looking at you, Workers Party.

    New Plymouth • Since Oct 2010 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Brendon Mills,

    *just to show you all that I am more than a hobbit troll*

    The idea of a left wing party sounds pretty alright to me. But it has to appeal to an audience that is beyond that of the whole ban-the-bomb-and-stop-the-tour crowd who attend Das Kapital discussion groups in university cafes and call themselves a 'workers party'.

    As unpalateble as it may sound, it will *have* to attract some of the Red Tory vote, the one that Winston has locked up.

    New Plymouth • Since Oct 2010 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Gender-shared leadership is the future of political parties IMO. The Greens figured that out already.

    I find the concept an interesting take on leadership, but I somehow doubt it's going to be "the future of political parties". Two reasons: co-leadership is hard, especially when it comes to questions like "who gets to be PM?", and the gender essentialism implied by requiring one woman and one man is...a bit strange.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2092 posts Report Reply

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