Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Welfare: Back to the Future?

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  • Matthew Poole, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    winning marginal seats doesn't mean getting more people in Parliament under most scenarios.

    Say wha? An electorate seat is an electorate seat. There are 69 of them, and they're totally FPP. Winning a marginal seat absolutely gets you more people in Parliament.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3925 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Deborah,

    As you can see, I'm reading this quite a different way to some of the people commenting up-thread.

    Yes. Free contraception for everyone is good. Free contraception targetted just at the poor, aimed at preventing them from having kids smacks of C19th eugenics.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1667 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Good Day Mediaphiles!

    Back to the Future, indeed. We've heard all of this before. Remember when Shipley tried to foist the Code of Social Responsibility onto us during the 97-98 recession?

    Cause we were immoral then. And we're immoral again now. Stop breeding. Stop drinking! (unless you're in the Official Rugby World Cup (tm) Heineken (tm) Stand). Create yourself a job.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin,

    anther massive shake just hit Chch

    And a tremble in Dunedin.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 184 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Winning a marginal seat absolutely gets you more people in Parliament.

    It's not how the system was explained to me, in that the overall makeup of Parliament gets substantially rebalanced according to the electoral vote. (I initially thought that 69 went FPP, and the rest proportionally, but I was disabused of this notion. On this very blog, from memory. Was I misinformed?)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7404 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Winning a marginal seat absolutely gets you more people in Parliament.

    No it doesn't. Those seats are deducted from party vote seats you might otherwise have won. Unless there's a wild divergence between your electorate vote and the party vote (eg Maori Party), and there aren't enough list vote MPs to deduct.

    Not to say that there aren't reasons you might want more electorate MPs.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to George Darroch,

    Probably. But having something at arm's length also gives you more political space - you can distance yourself from the operations of the entity.

    And ideologically, this is a report by people who think that government shouldn't be controlled by democratically elected and accountable politicians...

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1667 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Say wha? An electorate seat is an electorate seat. There are 69 of them, and they’re totally FPP. Winning a marginal seat absolutely gets you more people in Parliament.

    Nope. From Wikipedia:

    MMP is similar to other forms of proportional representation (PR) in that the overall total of party members in the elected body is intended to mirror the overall proportion of votes received; it differs by including a set of members elected by geographic constituency who are deducted from the party totals so as to maintain overall proportionality.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 801 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Say wha? An electorate seat is an electorate seat. There are 69 of them, and they're totally FPP. Winning a marginal seat absolutely gets you more people in Parliament.

    Nope. What determines the final numbers in Parliament is the party vote. Unless there is an overhang - unlikely with a large party - the electorates just shuffle the list.

    It would however be humiliating for Bennett, which is why I'm hoping it happens.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1667 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    So....I wonder who this is REALLY aimed at huh? Right off the acknowledgement page.

    Grow up and seek your destiny and stretch forth your hands for the tools of the western world to sustain you.
    Turn your heart to the treasures of your ancestors, your plumage,
    and place your spirit unto God to whom all things belong.

    Sir Apirana Ngata
    Pōtaka School
    1949

    Edit: Shades of Iwi Kiwi

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1502 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari,

    the fact that the working group recommends free contraception for those on the DBP suggests they have no faith in their solutions... for isn't the entire belief behind them that "these people" won't be on the benefit for long enough to father/mother multiple children whilst claiming state support?

    maybe they're just hedging their bets... in the knowledge their solutions will fail

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 358 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Peter Martin,

    anther massive shake just hit Chch

    Wait: what?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7404 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    anther massive shake just hit Chch

    New thread. Sounds bad - RNZ says some city centre buildings down.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Ana Simkiss, in reply to Juha Saarinen,

    For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

    And why take ye thought for raiment?
    Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow;
    they toil not, neither do they spin:

    Freemans Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 127 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Yeah, OK, I did a poor job of explaining myself there. Insufficient caffeine.

    And as I/S says, humiliating Bennett would be a great achievement all on its own. Shoving her onto the dole queue would be even better, but sadly I don't think National's support is going to crumble into dust.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3925 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    This quote from the Beneficiary Advisory Service sums it up for me:

    Parents should never be forced to leave their children in care when they are not comfortable with the carers.

    It's a recipe for disaster. I hate to do a Mrs Lovejoy but this is going to hurt children. The ones whose carers have no choice but to go back to work and find someone, anyone, to look after them. Might be their 25 year old boyfriend who's never looked after kids, might be the neighbour who has four of her own and could do with the under the table income, might be their 14 year old eldest. It's not going to be the shiny local childcare centre with a mile long waiting list and 100% qualified teachers charging more than half the minimum wage. Chances are, if someone did have reasonable options for getting back to work they'd take them. Leaving the ones who don't.

    There but for the luck of the draw go we all.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 814 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to B Jones,

    Thank you for saying that, B, because I hadn't thought of it in quite that way, and I was *already* ragey.

    (Also, yeah, the 'free contraception' thing? That's all about getting the inferior po' folks to stop breeding, eugenics styles. Don't be fooled, anyone.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3663 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    The one decent legacy of the Code of Social Responsibility era was very cheap Pills. Still needed an expensive doctor's consult every year or so, but the medication came down a lot. The govt now funds 5-year long term Jadelle. I'm not sure what extra free contraception they could do, in such a way that would be effective.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 814 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Wain,

    Great timing for the government, this earthquake... watch the reporting on it get totally buried under the Christchurch news (no pun intended)

    Since Nov 2006 • 141 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Richard Wain,

    And as Key flies in, plays hero, promises billions (but no tax increases to pay for it, mind), and watches his poll ratings go through the roof. You really couldn't plan for this.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3925 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    A bit tasteless, guys

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Our second largest city gets destroyed and John Key's poll ratings are the first thing you think about?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    [redacted]
    That's not worth responding to.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3925 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Rebuking each other for 'inappropriate' remarks will also be a great help, of course.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3663 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Deborah sent me over here because, oh, I see it's the same here.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4947 posts Report Reply

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