Hard News: The Wall and the Paper
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Paul Williams, in reply to
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Paul, there was a certain level of facetiousness in my reply, sorry not to have signalled it more... But in those knitting and sewing columns, which I did specify, Ms McLeod at least had some feel of authenticity, more so than those many of those paid to manufacture weekly opinion.
Sorry I missed that David, can see it now on re-reading.
There is nothing more unpleasant than those who fake opinions with regularity. And the SST's columns have seemed to devolve over the last few years to the opining of the 'will-say-anything-for-cash' brigade, of which Laws is now the pure exemplar.
Couldn't agree more. I will conciously read the views I'm inclined to disagree with if they expressed with good faith. A shill of any variety is a pain in the arse.
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Contrast Laws with, say, Karl du Fresne, or the late Frank Haden. They generally have a predictable point of view, but a principled one, which occasionally means interesting surprises. And importantly, I don't believe either one ever wrote a column with the deliberate purpose of pissing off a chunk of readers as their primary aim, whereas I can't help but think that Laws picks his positions for maximum outrage first and good sense by any set of principles a distant second.
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Wasn't Haden just a grumpy old man but, rather than being some sort of principled constructive commentator? He just seemed to say Bah Humbug, it was better in my day... I might be doing him a disservice.
My view was that Gareth Morgan was worth reading for a couple of reasons. Firstly, his deeds seem to match his words. Secondly, he often took a very empirical approach even if alternative empirical arguments could be made. It has been a while since I've been out of the country but...
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Wasn’t Haden just a grumpy old man but, rather than being some sort of principled constructive commentator?
IIRC Haden had a soft spot for solo mums for a start.
Edit: I googled. I found a lovely tribute to Haden from PAS’ own Deborah noting on his recent demise that Haden’s principled belief as a social conservative in the desireability of mothers caring for children at home lead him to be a supporter of the DPB. Viz “I thank God for the DPB…all that matters is that the DPB enables thousands of children to have their mothers…the special care for which there is no substitute.”
Further edit: at the risk of dragging this post entirely off-topic, look what I found.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
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My view was that Gareth Morgan was worth reading
Who, the globe-trotting financier biker that the Listener has turned into a permanent advertorial for?
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Islander, in reply to
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Tautoko Giovanni-and waua! Stephen Judd!
Excellent laugh material - thank you also Dr. Haywood! -
James Butler, in reply to
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Even Garth George occasionally follows evidence and reason into places he'd rather not go, such as his grudging but solid defence of the Maori seats. There was another example, but I can't be bothered wading through his usual self-righteous bullshit to find it.
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
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I walked home in fear that I would be seen carrying it
Just wrap it inside something less offensive. Beastiality Monthly or some such.
@Stephen Judd
You're right. I wrote the occasional piece for the Dom when Frank was OpEd editor. I'd always tremble when my liberal (well, by his standards) mumblings went in and Frank would sometimes call up to debate my conclusions. Took me a while to realise he wasn't intending to cut anything, just wanted a damned good argument :-)
And yes, more importantly, he followed his principles where ever they led. Lhaws oft-spouted "won't someone think of the children" dribble is at odds with the many stories of women who've used the DPB to extricate themselves and their children from a violent situation and make a new life, and the vast bulk who don't remain on any benefit for long.
In some ways he's even more annoying to principled intelligent conservatives than to liberals, since he misrepresents their thinking so publicly. Frank never did.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Who, the globe-trotting financier biker that the Listener has turned into a permanent advertorial for?
He's newsstand gold, I gather.
There are number of reasons to admire Gareth Morgan, but his godawful prose-writing isn't among them.
But that -- with very notable exceptions -- is The Listener these days. I flicked morosely through the new one, noting one lifeless intro after another. My suspicion is that without the superhuman subbing bench there, some of that copy would read even more badly than it does.
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Yes, Frank Haden wasn't all bad, and he did represent a reasonably coherent view. People might be surprised to learn where I met him: at a Skeptics conference, where we were both speaking.
His later writings on grammar were completely bonkers though.
Garth George would turn out the occasional good column until a couple of years ago. The lazy, deceptive cut-and-paste jobs in which he's been caught suggest that he really doesn't care any more.
McLeod? One in a blue moon she's great, but I generally don't both any more. She was tremendous in the 70s. Indeed, The Listener was extraordinarily fortunate then to have two contemporary writers who could illustrate their own writing. The other being Tom Scott.
It does seem to me that although there is more opinion being written in local print publications than ever, the quality seems to be draining away. I like Charlotte Grimshaw in Metro, though. She can write.
I probably should stop before I go into a career-limiting rant about certain other columnists.
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recordari, in reply to
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I generally don’t both any more.
I find one is generally ample.
[GG Pendant]
ETA:
One wonders whether we would have lost the America’s Cup if it weren’t for Ms Gracewood and the rest of her ‘comrades’ at Public Address. Slovenly English has always been the enemy of athletic prowess, as it is of good singing articulation, and of healthy bowels.
That really is gold.
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Who, the globe-trotting financier biker that the Listener has turned into a permanent advertorial for?
I don't read the Listener anymore, don't know this. I used to read his print stuff and often disagreed but generally his perspective was at least rooted in some analysis and not trotted out to play to the crowds. I was mostly focused on the logic of his views, not their literary qualities (I tend to think an interesting view, even poorly drafted is vastly superior to gloriously scripted crap).
McLeod? One in a blue moon she's great, but I generally don't both any more. She was tremendous in the 70s.
I'm sure she was, I recall her cartoons particularly, but aren't there new people coming through? Almost everyone who writes here does so with more coherence, passion and reason than Laws, McLeod et al. Perhaps the problem is the nature of the ideas, not so much the quality of writing. Where is the articulate and reasonable right?
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If such a thing exists???
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
In some ways he's even more annoying to principled intelligent conservatives than to liberals, since he misrepresents their thinking so publicly. Frank never did.
In other words, the Simon Uptons of this world, who unfortunately seem to be lying low right now. Privately they'd likely be cringing at the very mention of Mr Lhaws.
And with Gareth Morgan, it's interesting how he evolved from an avowed Kyoto-sceptic to a Kyoto-agnostic ("Poles Apart").
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Sacha, in reply to
Public floggings of page 3 girls ?
If you're talking Lhaws, that's private flogging *by* page 3 grrls
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Paul Williams, in reply to
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the Simon Uptons
Precisely, where's he nowadays?
If you’re talking Lhaws, that’s private flogging *by* page 3 grrls
Too many years ago, I met Antionette Beck, the alter-ego of Lhaws Exec Secretary and the person he blamed for his lies to Parliament. I wonder if she doesn't pretend like that never happened? Honestly, how's a complete prat like him ever attain any standing? It is beyond my comprehension.
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
Precisely, where's he nowadays?
Here.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Where is the articulate and reasonable right?
Well, there's our own Rob Hosking if you want a true blue but thoroughly reasonable chap, albeit I don't think he does much opinion journalism. As noted, I believe you could have a nice drink with Karl du Fresne and reach amicable conclusions on some subset of the worlds' problems without fear of violence. Fran O'Sullivan we've all bagged at one time or another, but she's not unreasonable per se, just starting from a very different set of political axioms. And so on. Laws has got nothing in common with the most of the right wing people writing in the NZ press and I don't think many of them would want or indeed deserve to be lumped in with him. The only "attraction" he offers to the SST op ed section is controversy.
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Richard Matthews, in reply to
Askew's Morningside murals are amazing. I havent seen them in person but must check them out http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2011/03/15/rail-murals-to-turn-grey/
Surely they are not next to go? Does anyone know where they exactly are? (I only know Monringside from Bro town!) -
The laws opinion peice, "A black eye for liberals" talks tough and goes nowhere - it offers and delivers nothing.
With Michael Laws self praise would likely be at the foundation of why he does what he does:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3260457/Praise-for-Laws-traced-to-his-own-firm
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Now I understand why our subscription to the (woeful) Dompost now also entitles us to the SST, delivered free.
Apart from Oram there is not much heft left in the SST.
Mind you the op piece on incoming GG was worth reading.
Pity about losing McDonald and Mcleod.
Lhaws is well past his use by date.
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Islander, in reply to
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Yup, a bit of nothing for nothing-
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Lhaws is well past his use by date.
He deserves to go the way of Paul Henry. But if Lhawsgate comes to pass, would the reactions be bigger than Henrygate? As in Tea Party proportions, that is.
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Lhaws is well past his use by date.
Did he ever have one?
Or "well past" would be a massive understatement.
I have just read his latest SST column. Based on that column and everything I've read and heard about him in the last few years, he is nasty, vicious, hypocritical, vindictive, sleazy, intolerant, and uninformed. I hate it when he waxes sentimental about his own kids as if he were a decent bloke and then lashes out brutally at poor people or disabled people.
I'd almost like the Hell's Angels to march down the main street of Whanganui in full regalia just to spite him.
As for print columnists out there, I've always been an admirer of Linley Boniface. She is wasted in the Health section of the Listener. (Her latest effort there is very shallow - homoeopathy mentioned uncritically etc) But she's witty, insightful and fluent when writing about issues of her own choice.
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nzlemming, in reply to
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that man should be advising govt
He regularly does. It's just that government doesn't listen.
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