Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Fairy-Tale Autopsies

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  • Paul Campbell,

    "Tank"->"Tink?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2183 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Opportunistic - lost the seat last time didn't he? Taking a huge gamble this "strraight shooting" gets it back. forever. Possibly considers himself the Harawera of the Coast, a man of his people. SO maybe Tink.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2074 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    Feck. I fixed that, which means this is the earlier draft. Oh cock...

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    they're specially vulnerable to being ignored, and laughter. And slash weapons.

    But you need fire or acid to stop them regenerating.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1666 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Consider Damien O’Connor. Is he a Tink – a genuine anti-union homophobe – or was he just trolling the Labour Party?

    I’d like someone to explain why I should give a rodent’s rectum either way. Either he's a bigot having a public temper tantrum, or just acts like a bigot because he sees some utility in it. An ulcerated 'roid on the body politic either way.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    As for Tinks, I think of them as memebots, a slightly more complicated walking version of MAKE MONEY FAST. They're no more worth talking to or engaging with than a robocall from an insurance company. There's no-one in there, just some quack looking for more hosts, and spamming endlessly in an effort to find them.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1666 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    I'd like someone to explain why I should give a rodent's rectum either way.

    Morbid curiousity? The same way you want to know what colour that pus is going to be?

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1666 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I'd like someone to explain why I should give a rodent's rectum either way.

    I find it interesting, in a car-crash sort of way. I'm not asking anyone else to.

    Though, y'know... I have family on the Coast. And some of them didn't cope very well with my "coming out by publishing a book they were then given as a present by other family members". I guess I'd just hate to think this was a winning tactic there.

    Also, I know people who would like to know where the Gaggle of Gays is at. Because it sounds like an actual party.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    To join in on the semantic nerdery: when I was first learning to Talk To People On The Internet, a "troll" wasn't a person. A troll was a post or comment intended to inspire an angry reaction. People "trolled" messageboards without being trolls themselves, and the usage of "Troll" as a noun to describe people wasn't common enough to register.

    I'm not so sure about the Tink/Troll distinction anyway. It all rests on applying a distinction to what someone you probably dislike "really" thinks, which is always difficult to do objectively. After all, does it really matter whether the Wetboro Baptist Church folks really believe the stuff they say, or whether they're just doing it for the cash? It's what they say that matters, not why. Same applies with O'Connor-I really don't care whether he's a closet (no pun intended) homophobe or not. What I care about is whether or not he can reliably speak for the Labour Party, and his outburst suggests he can't.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 862 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    As far as I have always been concerned the term "Troll" originates from a fishing term "Trolling" which means to drop a hook in the water whilst cruising, in the vague and mindless possibility of catching a fish. This works quite well as a "Troll" is fishing for a bite, capturing someone by disingenuous argument.
    A story..
    A man is sitting by a flowerbed with a fishing rod, ostensibly fishing. A passer-by, thinking she would humour the fellow asks "Have you caught anything yet?" the man replies "You are the third one today"

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Greg Dawson,

    Obviously we’re all above quibbling, but shouldn’t “And slash weapons.” be “And slashing weapons.”?

    Or are you really going for the fight-back-with-pantsless-Ron meaning?

    [ETA: although really slashing won't help you, you need to go straight for the fire or acid with trolls]

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 281 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    There's no-one in there, just some quack looking for more hosts, and spamming endlessly in an effort to find them.

    See, I disagree. I think there is someone in there, but it's that relative you have to see every Christmas, the one you try desperately to avoid having to talk to.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Tessa Houghton, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    Aye, just noticed that too. But Tankerbell might be a good name for them, I reckon. They are somewhat like tanks.

    New Plymouth, NZ • Since Aug 2009 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    See, I disagree. I think there is someone in there, but it's that relative you have to see every Christmas, the one you try desperately to avoid having to talk to.

    Just because its wearing meat doesn't mean its a person.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1666 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    People "trolled" messageboards without being trolls themselves, and the usage of "Troll" as a noun to describe people wasn't common enough to register.

    Yes, verb got nouned. This is a process I thoroughly approve of.

    Professionally, I have to be able to make the distinction. The tactics for modding and otherwise dealing with Tinks and Trolls are quite different. Tinks and Trolls are treated quite differently, both in modding and how the community responds to them, right here. I am... slightly hobbled in discussing this by not wishing to name any Tinks you might be familiar with...

    Or are you really going for the fight-back-with-pantsless-Ron meaning?

    Pun is Not Accidental. I used to have some people who, every time I caught them hanging around my blog, got to see some gay erotica.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    not wishing to name any Tinks you might be familiar with

    go on, jog our memory

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Not all True Believers are Tinks. Some deliberately offend one group to get the sympathy of the other, to make their real point, whatever that is. O'Connor is in this category. I think his real point was "I'm the man to represent the West Coast".

    He is still a fool, though. What he doesn't get about West Coast homophobes, whoever they are, is that saying his party is run by gays isn't going to impress them. So he's alienated everyone else, and quite possibly alienated the same people he was dog whistling to.

    Tinks are more cunning than he is.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8659 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    I'd like someone to explain why I should give a rodent's rectum either way.

    Morbid curiousity? The same way you want to know what colour that pus is going to be?

    Well, I'm certainly morbidly curious as to how it pans out for him come the election, not so much why he said it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2074 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    It's what they say that matters, not why

    In practical terms, I tend to agree with that. Allowing persistent non-listening in a discussion erodes the community regardless of motivation. Troll is as troll does, perhaps?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Professionally, I have to be able to make the distinction. The tactics for modding and otherwise dealing with Tinks and Trolls are quite different.

    I do get that, however.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I find it interesting, in a car-crash sort of way. I’m not asking anyone else to.

    Oh, no -- but honestly the spectacle of never-were politicians having a pissy-fit over their list rankings got tired fifteen years ago. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Thank you, Emma.

    But can I also take the opportunity to note that there are also people who are not trolls or tinks, but who sometime simply disagree with most of the crowd, and might be a bit frustrating at times? I do think the T-word is sometimes overused in these forums.

    More often than is strictly sensible, I will try and discuss things offline with people who are actually trolling. There is a tradition of people charging in to PAS and getting all offside with everyone before they get the hang of the culture and settle down and contribute, and I always hold the hope that’ll be the case. I don’t like banning people.

    But generally, that’s just a recipe for yet more unpleasant behaviour, as if my attempt to mediate only validates whatever preconception they thought they had. Sigh.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Emma: I think you might be talking about libertarians–the species who are deaf to anything which does not match with their rather dismal view of the world and their hilarious notion that Ann Raynd is The Best Writer Ever.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2329 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But can I also take the opportunity to note that there are also people who are not trolls or tinks, but who sometime simply disagree with most of the crowd, and might be a bit frustrating at times? I do think the T-word is sometimes overused in these forums.

    Yes. And yes. And it's a pretty horrible thing to call someone who's actually genuine. It makes me really uncomfortable.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I reckon the problem with many online communities is that they want to be inclusive. Inclusive is good, mmk.

    So there isn't a message that pops up when you post:

    This community caters for a range of opinions between <insert> and <insert> You should be technology positive and non-bigoted (although we do permit xenophobia if targeted against <insert disliked group here>). Also, you should appreciate <insert site owner's favourite bands, electronic products and football code>

    But really, there should be. Because discussion between a large group with disparate ideas doesn't really work. Look at commentisfree or the copyright thread (ok, that's just two people with different ideas).

    Maybe the Labour Party should have such a statement too (the Greens do).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4484 posts Report Reply

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