Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Fairy-Tale Autopsies

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Emma: I think you might be talking about libertarians–the species who are deaf to anything which does not match with their rather dismal view of the world and their hilarious notion that Ann Raynd is The Best Writer Ever.

    Arguing with doctrinaire libertarians can be a fun way to pass time, but it never really works out, because they'll never take on board a concept that crosses their doctrine.

    I used to talk to Perigo (he was less daft then) on my bFM Wire show occasionally in the 90s, and it was actually very convivial.

    But I recall one time stopping him dead by pointing out that as a venerator of property rights and the courts, he should be marching in the streets alongside Maori who'd had millions of acres of private property stolen by the state. It was as if he couldn't hold all the ideas in his head.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17976 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Arguing with doctrinaire libertarians can be a fun way to pass time, but it never really works out, because they'll never take on board a concept that crosses their doctrine.

    I get the same thing with extreme social conservatives. One of the things that makes me wonder if the 'political spectrum' isn't actually a circle.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4286 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    the copyright thread (ok, that's just two people with different ideas)

    That was a prime example not of differing ideas but of a wilfully unpleasant approach to conversation by just one person. I don't know anywhere offline that would put up with such behaviour.

    If this is a conversation space, then why bend over backwards to placate someone, anyone, who is unwilling to be part of a discussion? Or unable; it makes little practical difference unless there's evidence of commitment to improve that the community can trust.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15762 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    makes me wonder if the 'political spectrum' isn't actually a circle

    There's a reason Marxists become Actoids

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15762 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    the copyright thread (ok, that’s just two people with different ideas)

    That was a prime example not of differing ideas but of a wilfully unpleasant approach to conversation by just one person. I don’t know anywhere offline that would put up with such behaviour.

    And I really shouldn't have put up with it for as long as I did, but I wanted to be fair. The insults were largely directed at me and I figured I could put up with a bit more of that than everyone else. And letting trolls run for a while can actually provoke useful discussion. It just never ends well.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17976 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sacha,

    There’s a reason Marxists become Actoids

    I generally have more of a problem with people who confuse politics with the more dogmatic fringes of cultic religion.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11621 posts Report Reply

  • Hayden Wilson,

    I get the same thing with extreme social conservatives. One of the things that makes me wonder if the 'political spectrum' isn't actually a circle.

    My theory is that it is like one of those bangles that doesn't quite join to create a full circle - the extreme ends are much closer to each other than either is to the middle - and ceratinly much closer than either end would care to admit.

    Since Nov 2006 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Feck. I fixed that, which means this is the earlier draft. Oh cock...

    Ah ha! Too much merlot!?

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Jacqui Dunn,

    Ah ha! Too much merlot!?

    Partly that (last night, I hope obviously), and partly tbh a fairly severe case of earthquake-brain.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4286 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Am I correct in assuming that "Tink" is reserved for the person who brings every thread around to their special interest rather than the one who is absolutely fine so long as you manage to avoid one or two topics?

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 690 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Isabel Hitchings,

    I think the line is actually somewhere in between, where the person won't side-track every thread, but will sort of skim for keywords which would allow them to shoe-horn their pet topic in.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4286 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    The problem with calling them "Tinks" is that every so often a "w" will slip in there and that won't end well...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    especially on the West Coast of Wellington

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15762 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Emma Hart,

    shoe-horn

    An athletic shoe, I'm thinking.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3583 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to nzlemming,

    The problem with calling them “Tinks” is that every so often a “w” will slip in there and that won’t end well…

    Clap if you believe in fairies?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11621 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Clap if you believe in fairies?

    Only the pretty ones.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17976 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Just hang around the Kodak booth, sweetie, and one day your prints will come :-D

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    'This is my truth, please don't tell me yours'.

    It's not what we tink, it's how we're tinking.

    And what's wrong with twink? Although it's hard to get off an LCD screen.

    'I tink a taw a puddy cat. I did, I did taw a puddy cat.

    <gnome>

    ETA:

    Clap if you believe in fairies?

    Clappity clappity.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Jo S,

    On a slightly different tack - are there different levels for "lurkers"?
    Which I probably nearly count as, being an extremely infrequent poster.

    (although lurkers being arguably a lot less annoying in general than trolls or tinks)

    is it autumn yet? • Since May 2007 • 80 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    If I hadn't run out of time, I'd remove that Trollcats link. It goes to a level I didn't believe possible. That will teach me for assuming the first one set the tone for the page.

    Really really sorry, and Emma you might want to remove it.

    <accidental troll>

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    Thanks for posting about this, Emma. The over-use of the term trolling in this forum has been bothering me too. In fact, I even commented as much about a month ago (please can we have timestamps back!).

    I’m not sure what trolling means these days. To me it means (or used to mean) a deliberately provocative statement reflecting a view not sincerely held. Today it appears to apply to any provocative statement whether the view is sincerely held or not.

    Lower Grey Lynn • Since Jul 2009 • 782 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to recordari,

    Really really sorry, and Emma you might want to remove it.

    And I scrolled down the page, idly thinking, "no, I think a warning will do, this isn't that bad OH FUCK OH FUCK"

    It's gone. People can find it themselves if they wish.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4286 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Jo S,

    On a slightly different tack – are there different levels for “lurkers”?
    Which I probably nearly count as, being an extremely infrequent poster.

    It depends on how cool you are, obviously. Please post your CV and we will judge you, quietly but with great intensity.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 838 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Jo S,

    On a slightly different tack – are there different levels for “lurkers”?

    I wouldn't think so, Jo. I mean, if you're lurking, you're lurking. Unless you're lurking with malintent. Perhaps it's a bit "if a tree fell in the woods and no-one was there to hear it" sort of thing.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3112 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Gee, I felt like I should strategically dip my hat below one eye while I read this post.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 894 posts Report Reply

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