In fact,?

There's also been some interesting chats at my work on whether there'll be grounds for?

Well, so far their fighting has been pretty toothless. Hopefully the nails will prove somewhat more effective.

Sadly though, a tag line for a certain beverage springs to mind.

Not likely to change under Brash either, who left under the cloud of scandal too.

I think Act would always win Epsom though wouldn't they?

I don't think it's certain at all. A lot?

If only all 5,112 Epsom voters who voted for Kate Sutton in 2008 had instead?

Or to put it succinctly, Tea Party, with a dash of Consumers & Taxpayers Association. No, make that Consumers United?

There's also similar contradictions in the Greens — but they at least have some discipline and civility at the organisational and caucus levels.

Honestly, I think Labour has to do a lot better than "lookit, SEEKRITAGENDA" – again. Really, I think people have gotten sick of waiting for John Key to reveal he's actually Ruth Richardson?

Perhaps Labour could focus on the line that says, "It's a jump to the left"

Time for a young vibrant party of the right...

hmm?

I'm glad *someone* picked up on that one :)

Lest we forget the dodgy dealings of Brash, Key, Joyce and their brethren, NZ On Screen has posted the full length Hollow Men for all to view (embedded, 149MB for first clip of 5).

It's tuna, the "chicken of the sea":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2h72aXVP8o

Just imagine Don Brash with Jessica Simpson's body. Go on, I dare you.

In 2005, yes, since Hide's majority was very much smaller than the Labour/Green candidates' votes total.
In 2008, not a chance. Rodney's majority in 2008?

It's notoriously difficult to hammer that last nail in when you're pinning yourself to a cross, but I have faith that Phil Goff will manage it with his usual grace.

I actually know the answer to that because I have a friend (whom I really still do like) who can't abide National for it's soft and spineless approach to economics in NZ. Act is almost right wing enough?

A guy I went to?

Will be interesting to see how Key handles this to avoid bleeding votes to ACT without increasing total support for the centre-right. I still think Brash has low-value electability. His legendary "not mainstream NZers" pissed?

I wouldn't be too sure, Brash did?

There are going to be some Epsom voters who were happy with the Hide populist agenda and are going to be less happy with Brash.?

A Harley Davidson Street Aye Specialist.

Danyl has a very succinct summary of the argument here. PLUS we get to play Race-Based Policy Bingo in the comments!

Actually my assumption is that Rodney's brand is so tarnished this time around that there's a good chance that they wont – and as a result the right would lose all of ACT's party votes – hence the?

Oh, and remind me who?s not ruling out getting back in bed with WInston Peters if that zombie apocalypse happens? Hint: It?s not Key. Throw in the visceral hatred a good chunk of Labour has for the Maori?

Meh!

The same position taken by Pauline Hanson and Nick Griffin.

While Brash is plainly not as extreme as those two, is as just as convincing in the "I'm not a racist but..." stakes.

And ignores all the data which shows they're not. Not in terms of health, education, employment etc. So now what? Any number of indicators shows a significant proportion of the nation's?

No, and neither will screaming ?racist? at anyone who suggests that the Maori seat may just have outlived their usefulness. You know, like we somehow managed to get past the idea that only property owners over the age of twenty-one?

I personally do not so think: the system has changed (and bad cess to Labour for indirectly making this happen) but the southern Maori voice needs to be heard in our Parliament...

(it is inclusive of Moriori/Rekohu people?

Anyone else here thinks the Maori seats may have outlived their usefulness?

Craig has a mortgage on that. Given that all Maori have the choice of dis-establishing the Maori seats by voluntarily transferring to the general roll, can't we let the market sort this out ? Instead, Craig, Brash and?

And just in case you need some help with that...

I haven't had the shakes so bad since Meryl Streep agreed to play Margaret Thatcher.

The horror.....the horror...

Great argument

Craig Y

Yeah, like, where would he hide it?

The Don Brash National Party opposed the Foreshore and Seabed Act =)

Also, Maori and non-Maori owners of fee simple title?

The impact upon the overall right vote and where national positions itself is the interesting thing out?

Given the John Banks angle, I'm not convinced that's the plan.

Oh, go away and stop drama queening. You know that the Maori seats can only be abolished by?

So if Brash had won in 05 and abolished the seats, how would have that been with Maori leave? I not only don't recall him saying he was planning?

Yes possibly. But probably not going the other way. For such a small party, it's really had to build a pretty big tent to fit all it's arms in.

First, Brash couldn?t have abolished a damn thing without the assent of a majority of Parliament. I might not have liked everything the Fifth Labour Government did ? certainly never voted?

Ha!

So now that Key has ruled out Brash of finance, and said it's 'highly unlikely' he'll get a top job, and said that ACT has extremist views...

...I do?

I'd take that with a sack of salt. All depends on how much of the vote they get – and what the shady backers of both parties tell their boy Key?

So are you saying that if he had of won a parliamentary majority then that would mean he had the assent of Maori to abolish the seats? Or that such an?

That?s actually a perfectly reasonable question, but I really don?t think it?s one that can be made with much confidence. Those tiresome elections lay waste?

Could someone just ask Brash about this?

It seems such a bloody obvious question. There's even been?

Actually, I think there's bundle?

How recent? The Sir Joh era?

Short version: Brisbane's Lord Mayor, Campbell Newman, (equivalent to Len Brown) announced he'd simultaneous contest a parliamentary seat and also the leadership of the Liberal/National parliamentary coalition. There's a suggestion (leak) that the current leader of the Liberal/National Coalition?

This seems apposite.

Um, Paul — do we really need to go there? It's weird (and blackly comic) enough that we have a party whose presumptive leader isn't even?

Quite.

Brash joined up yesterday morning before the media conference. That it was merely a matter of 'procedure' before then shows what really counts and where power lies in that shady cesspit that has lain beneath both National and?

That was the Don back invoking the blood quotient on 4 Sept, 2005. Or perhaps he was?

Oh, for God's sake... Seriously. Perhaps I've been living in some Fringe-like alternate universe, but Hide's performance --?

He was expecting to attract financial backers, but "I have none of that lined up".

Unless you have pulled strings at senior level like Boag or injected millions into both parties over the years like Gibbs, Shirtcliffe, Foreman et al then you simply don't count.

your "shadowy backers" (funny how right-wing parties?

There has long been a significant overlap of the right of National with Act. It might be interesting to hear more about what this latest move does for the tussle between the?

Don Brash is seventy. John Banks is sixty five. Roger Douglas is seventy?

You've got to be extracting the urine. Do you know anyone involved with?

Whatever, it will certainly be a merry dance.

Gustafson, hardly a screaming leftie, mentions the attempts by moneyed Aucklanders to hijack the party over the years. Hager says we're seeing a re-run, with many of the?

Too right ? carousel for all the stupid smelly old people! Renew! Renew!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7TY9CXBKHA

All he's saying is "trust me, I'm not the same as those guys". Expect similar utterances and carefully-crafted theatre between now and November.

Yeah, but it's never been so overt that the guy who came within a hair's breadth of running this country turns out to be so aligned with ACT that he not only wants to lead it,?

Sorry, but what the fuck does this have to do with ACT? I know Barry reasonably well, and I don't think he's quite accepted — let alone wrapped his head around --?

Same people deep behind both is what I've been saying and you have been resisting hearing it seems. Gustafson didn't appear to be having any struggle with the conversation.

Lack of any effective opposition can enhance the brashness of politicians.

I've heard it, Sacha. I'm just not buying what you're selling, and you're not making much of a case to change my mind.

(Sanctuary, this is where you swoop in — just?

Back to that cake stall to raise funds for the party, eh

Oddly enough, Sacha, there are still one or two people who get off their arses and participate instead of bitching on the sidelines. And, yes, people still fundraise for political parties old school. You might also want to?

Tamaki?

Wouldn't you say opposing big money and backroom power is exactly that? If I were the rank and file volunteers I'd feel mighty pissed off at?

Boscawen, innit?

Glad to hear that.

Back to that cake stall to raise funds for the party, eh

Eh? Don will give the Brethren a call wouldn't he?

Brash and Banks confirmed yesterday there had been talks with people within the wider National Party

I remember the Wgtn Town Hall election public meeting in 1975 when?

but I'm just a little tired of being patronising and treated like an idiot because you don't like the party I support and belong to.

Let's call it election year fever

The question really is, to what extent have significant people in the National Party been consulted, and to what extent do they support?

– Il Partito Nazionale di Nuova Zelanda
– Il Partito Laburista di Nuova Zelanda
– Il Partito Verdi
– Il Associazione dei Consumatori e Contribuenti
– Nuova Zelanda Primo
– Il Partito Maori
– Uniti-Futuro Nuova Zelanda?