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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Busytown: What was lost</title>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211464#post211464</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:14:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211465#post211465</link>
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						Thank you, Jolisa. Well blogged.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:14:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211466#post211466</link>
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						<blockquote><p>A decade of ever-increasing paranoia and withdrawal and pain, in the place of that first gathering of light and voice and hope.</p></blockquote><p>That's what I was trying and failing to say in the other thread. Thank you.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:15:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211475#post211475</link>
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						Beautifully put- thanks.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:43:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kate Hannah</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211476#post211476</link>
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						<p>Oh beautiful. And personal. And political. I'm glancing at the scrawled words of Toni Morrison's I keep above my computer: "make it as political as hell. And make it irrevocably beautiful."</p><p>Yesterday was so strange &ndash; like you articulate so well; trying to explain to children born in the shadow?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:44:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kimberley</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211477#post211477</link>
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						Thank you for this. It's beautiful and thoughtful and everything we need right now.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:46:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Andre Alessi</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211478#post211478</link>
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						Lovely, lovely post.  I can't help but agree that this is a symbolic end to something, whatever that "something" might be.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 10:54:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211482#post211482</link>
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						So many horrible, horrible things have happened in the Middle East since 2001, so many tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, made homeless, lost their livelihoods.  I'm not sorry bin Laden is dead, but I find it hard to believe that his death changes much.  I feel he's?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:11:41 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211483#post211483</link>
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						<p>You write very well.</p><p>I still don't really know what I feel about bin Laden's death. Something but I'm just not sure what. On the cork-board just behind my monitor is pinned a copy of The Western Leader. It has a picture of the towers burning and a picture of?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:13:03 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Leaflemming</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211486#post211486</link>
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						Thank you for this, Jolisa. I've teased you in the past for infrequent blogging. To write something so apposite, so eloquent, right when we need it, with all the demands of the moment going on around you &ndash; thank you.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:27:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jacqui Dunn</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211487#post211487</link>
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						Jolisa, you write <em>so very well</em>. Thank you for putting this down.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:31:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jacqui Craig</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211492#post211492</link>
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						Thanks for the great post, it brought tears to my eyes. I was thinking this morning, as  I walked my 5 year old to school, that she doesn't know about bin Laden, or the Towers (despite the fact her uncle lives in NY and she's been there twice on 9/11)?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:38:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211493#post211493</link>
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						<p>Wow!  That's is so pertinent and lovely.  Our twins were born 6 months later, and at the time, knowing they were on the way, we thought 'what sort of world are we bringing these innocent souls into?'</p><p>I can't comment on the 'justice' or bigger geopolitical implications any more, as?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:39:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>webweaver</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211502#post211502</link>
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						<q>A year and a bit later, we put the fat little toddler in his stroller and marched down Broadway with hundreds of thousands of people against the impending invasion of Iraq, chanting ?Not In Our Name.?  Together we testified that no matter how great the hole in the heart of?</q>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:58:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ben Gracewood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211506#post211506</link>
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						<p>Buried in Obama's strange Tom Clancy speech last night was an inkling (albeit less eloquent) of what Jolisa has said.<br /><q>And tonight, let us think back to the sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11.  I know that it has, at times, frayed.  Yet today?s achievement is a testament to?</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 12:02:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211509#post211509</link>
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						<p><q> <em>A decade of ever-increasing paranoia and withdrawal and pain, in the place of that first gathering of light and voice and hope.</em></p><p>That?s what I was trying and failing to say in the other thread. Thank you.</q></p><p>I liked it so much I quoted it in my post too.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 12:06:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Butler</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211510#post211510</link>
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						<p>What a lovely post.</p><p>That morning we were asleep on my parent's living room floor in Wellington &ndash; two teenagers, still a bit shellshocked by parenthood, with our 3-month-old son (must have been something in the water, by the looks of all the comments upthread); my wife got up early?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 12:06:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211511#post211511</link>
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						Thanks &ndash; I lived thru it all on the (US) West Coast &ndash; that day when everything stopped, watching it over and over again switching from channel to channel then off to work after the second one came down -and  they sent us home from work because they thought the?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 12:07:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211537#post211537</link>
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						Thank you Jolisa. Beautiful and incisive.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 13:04:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211548#post211548</link>
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						<p><q>and our son was now 13 and draft age wasn't that far away</q></p><p>Ah yes. The other thing that's goddam American about our boys. Still no draft &mdash; will there ever be one again, or is it politically impossible at this point?  Although with enlisted soldiers being deployed multiple times,?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 13:36:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211549#post211549</link>
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						<p><q> I guess it?s one of our jobs as parents to lower the burdens of life as slowly as possible onto the shoulders of our children, while trying to ensure that they?re bearing most of the weight by the time we?re no longer able to hold it for them.</q></p><p>James, that's?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 13:38:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211552#post211552</link>
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						<p><q> I?m glancing at the scrawled words of Toni Morrison?s I keep above my computer: ?make it as political as hell. And make it irrevocably beautiful.?</q></p><p>Words to live, and write, by! </p><p>To be honest, I'm stunned by everyone's responses. For once I didn't rewrite and reread and rewrite again --?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 13:47:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211558#post211558</link>
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						<p><q>Ah yes. The other thing that's goddam American about our boys. Still no draft &mdash; will there ever be one again, or is it politically impossible at this point?  Although with enlisted soldiers being deployed multiple times, you have to wonder if it will become necessary.</q></p><p>who knows &ndash; in?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:00:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>richard</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211560#post211560</link>
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						<p>Technically speaking, I believe the draft still exists, in that American men are obliged to register for "Selective Service" at age 18 &mdash; it is just that no-one is actually summoned. </p><p>It is something of a political compromise, but they could presumably save a few million by scrapping it --?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:02:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211563#post211563</link>
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						true &ndash; it would probably take a Republican to do it though
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:04:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rebecca Williams</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211573#post211573</link>
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						thank you jolisa.  thanks for sharing.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:33:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211598#post211598</link>
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						<p><q>given that they got through Iraq without a draft they can probably get through most things</q></p><p>The civil and military costs of the multiple back-to-back tours most enlistees have been subjected to will be rippling outwards for decades, I suspect.</p><p>I don't think a draft for the WoT was/is a?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:08:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jacqui Dunn</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211603#post211603</link>
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						<q>He's an anxious child as it is, and finds flying (or even seeing or hearing a plane or helicopter) pretty trying sometimes. I guess it's one of our jobs as parents to lower the burdens of life as slowly as possible onto the shoulders of our children, while trying to?</q>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:25:08 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Isabel Hitchings</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211606#post211606</link>
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						My son, who ten years ago was turning somersaults in by belly while we watched the planes crash on TV, just asked about what I was reading. I tried to explain how a bad thing happened and how now there's another thing which is also kind of a bad thing.?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:46:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Butler</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211607#post211607</link>
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						<p><q>Perhaps he had taken it in on a level we as adults have hardened ourselves against. Your fear soaked in by your tiny, open-to-all-influences baby? </q></p><p>I'm a bit reluctant to trace personality traits to events from childhood, especially that early &ndash; people react to events in such varied ways, I?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:53:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211610#post211610</link>
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						There is evidence, according to my midwife sisters, that hormones produced by fear (adrenalin for one) definitely affect in-womb babes. After birth -so long as they're snug in loving arms, fed, & warm &ndash; not so much. BUT &ndash; there is quite good evidence (o hell, I will learn to cut&paste soon?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 18:03:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Butler</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211611#post211611</link>
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						<p><q>There is evidence, according to my midwife sisters, that hormones produced by fear (adrenalin for one) definitely affect in-womb babes.</q></p><p>Indeed.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 18:22:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211628#post211628</link>
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						Incredibly well and very beautifully written.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 22:03:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211631#post211631</link>
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						<p>Lovely Jolisa.</p><p>It?s very unlikely that a draft would come back in the States. The military tends to be opposed to it from what I?ve seen on the basis that it doesn?t produce as good a soldier.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 22:48:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Robyn Gallagher</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211642#post211642</link>
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						<p>I saw a guy on Twitter complaining that the 6pm news was being patronising by explaining what 9/11 was. But for, say, an 18-year-old, 9/11 could very well feel like a fuzzy childhood memory.</p><p>And these kids are growing up with all the annoying anti-terror restriction and loopholes, but because?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 00:35:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Creon Upton</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211647#post211647</link>
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						<p>Beautiful writing Jolisa.</p><p>And I can tell you why too. This thing is symbolic, and you treat it as such, unwaveringly. It?s futile trying to make it be about, or mean, anything beyond that.</p><p>And the only thing to feel is sad.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 03:46:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211650#post211650</link>
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						<p><q>I have a feeling that in another 10 year's time, we'll start to see teens being disrespectful of 9/11. Why are you guys always going on about 9/11? It was decades ago. It's the '20s now &ndash; move on!</q></p><p>I actually hope that will happen. They should still know about?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 07:33:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kate Hannah</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211672#post211672</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211672#post211672</guid>
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						<p><q>Words to live, and write, by!</q></p><p>They sit over my monitor next to Kafka's 'a book must be the ice-axe for the frozen sea within us' and a <strong>real</strong> MLK quote: 'the arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.' With these three fellow travellers, I try to?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 09:45:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211683#post211683</link>
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						<p><q>I saw a guy on Twitter complaining</q></p><p>get out of here!</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 10:40:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211697#post211697</link>
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						<p><q>MLK quote: ?the arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.?</q></p><p>Also MLK:</p><p>"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 11:32:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211698#post211698</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211698#post211698</guid>
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						<p><q>"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.</q></p><p><a href="http://mashable.com/2011/05/03/altered-mlk-quote/" target="_blank">Not MLK;  Jessica Dovey</a>. :)</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 11:37:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211700#post211700</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211700#post211700</guid>
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						<p><q>Not MLK; Jessica Dovey. :)</q></p><p>Oh!  Damn internet.</p><p>Apparently the <em>original</em> MLK is this*:<br />?Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 11:42:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211701#post211701</link>
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						<p><q>This thing is symbolic, and you treat it as such, unwaveringly. It?s futile trying to make it be about, or mean, anything beyond that.<br /></q><br />Yes. I?ve been pondering this too. The symbolism of the twin towers falling was profound, for the western world that created the towers, and for the?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 11:53:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>webweaver</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211710#post211710</link>
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						<p>Gosh that's an awesome quote from MLK. It's what I was trying (rather unsuccessfully) to express in the <a href="http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/you-know-what/" target="_blank">other thread</a>. </p><p>I should have known that someone like MLK would have been able to phrase those thoughts just perfectly.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 12:40:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kate Hannah</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211712#post211712</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211712#post211712</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I retweeted the fake MLK quote several times Monday. Internets hey?
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 12:57:36 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Percy Flage</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211785#post211785</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211785#post211785</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I'm sorry to introduce a tangential note, but I am much distressed by Ms Amanda Gillies, 'journalist', and her 'compassion' for the family of Benedict Dacayan: [http://www.3news.co.nz/Tornado-victim-a-devoted-husband-father/tabid/423/articleID/209788/Default.aspx].  How has this come to pass in New Zeaalnd?  Is this what we are now?
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				<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 23:34:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Karen Healey</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211792#post211792</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211792#post211792</guid>
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						Oh, Jolisa. This is wonderfully written, and hit me right in the heart.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 04:03:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211796#post211796</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211796#post211796</guid>
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						<p><q>How has this come to pass in New Zeaalnd? Is this what we are now?</q></p><p>You are not alone.  I found myself yelling at the television.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 07:28:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211822#post211822</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211822#post211822</guid>
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						<p>Oh, that's ghastly news-making. Doorstopping the bereaved is just bad form, anywhere, any time. </p><p>Ironically, I was about to post <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/osama_bin_laden/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/02/marian_fontana_responds_osamas_death" target="_blank">this piece</a> by 9/11 widow, Marian Fontana, on the emotional toll of being a public symbol of a shared disaster (not just her, but her son).</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 14:16:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211826#post211826</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211826#post211826</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						The same writer on her <a href="http://www.salon.com/life/life_stories/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2010/09/11/911_dinner_with_rumsfeld" target="_blank">Dinner with Rumsfeld</a>. Worth reading, even now :)
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 14:34:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211828#post211828</link>
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						<p>Oh that is a great, great piece of writing!  She is tough stuff.</p><p>Not sure which is my favourite bit, there are so many: "...stepping on Condoleezza Rice's foot along the way"? Or "The whore in the blue dress is playing with the first dog"? Brilliant.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 15:02:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jackie Clark</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211831#post211831</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211831#post211831</guid>
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						Her memoir made for very good reading, Jolisa.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 15:10:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211835#post211835</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211835#post211835</guid>
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						Putting it on the list  &ndash; ta!
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 15:50:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Carol Stewart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211838#post211838</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211838#post211838</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I wonder if you've got any thoughts on the post 9/11 literature, Jolisa?Jonathan Safran Foer's  <em>Extremely loud and incredibly close</em> would be one example; also the writings of Jonathan Raban over in Seattle, both fictional and non. You probably know of lots more.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 16:21:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211860#post211860</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211860#post211860</guid>
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						<p>One post 9/11 I would recommend, which I was just reminded is based in Lahore Pakistan, was <em><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/mar/03/featuresreviews.guardianreview20" target="_blank">The Reluctant Fundamentalist</a></em> by Mohsin Hamid.  My recollection is that it was subtle and thought provoking, and raised many questions about identity and patriotism.</p><p>I haven?t read <em>Extremely loud and incredibly close</em>, but?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 18:41:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Creon Upton</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211869#post211869</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211869#post211869</guid>
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						<p><q>The symbolism of the twin towers falling was profound</q></p><p>Yeah, it was. But more than that, it generated a whole symbolic world, a whole order of meaning-making that &mdash; though obviously intimately associated with "real world" (and appalling) events &mdash; was somehow always detached from them in a way, allowing?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 22:00:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211873#post211873</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211873#post211873</guid>
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						<p>O- welcome to the real haphazard nothing-means-anything &amp; nothing means any thing world Creon!<br />Been here since beings got up on their hinds &ndash; or otherwise developed social brains- and started thinking- and realised their thinking meant bugger-all.<br />Their love for each other is the only meaning &ndash; and, since we?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 22:42:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Creon Upton</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211874#post211874</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211874#post211874</guid>
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						<p>True enough, Islander, true enough. Funny how we (or I at least) need reminding now and then.</p><p>Joy, huh?</p><p>I'll keep my eye out.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 22:57:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211876#post211876</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211876#post211876</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						And your ear in- I live a place of bird music, which helps &ndash; but the other sounds we can store, from drums, human voices, all the world of birds & our musics and the long sound of the sea...it's our's-
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 23:05:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211880#post211880</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211880#post211880</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>And your ear in- I live a place of bird music, which helps &ndash; but the other sounds we can store, from drums, human voices, all the world of birds &amp; our musics and the long sound of the sea...it's our's-</q></p><p>OMG, how freaky. I was just lying in bed contemplating?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 08:14:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211891#post211891</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=211891#post211891</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>.....until a loud chirrup in my ear announced that one of my American colleagues had seen me come online on Skype, and he wanted to discuss a bug in my code.</q></p><p>Codus interruptus.</p><p><01100011 01101111 01100001 01110100></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 09:37:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212026#post212026</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212026#post212026</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Great question, Carol... I'd need to get my head around that before answering at length. I'd have to say I think I prefer books that allow the subject in sideways, rather than tackle it head-on.  And more and more seem to do that, in a way that's both subtle and?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 13:46:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212033#post212033</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212033#post212033</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>A couple of serendipitous links via my twitterstream from the last few days: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/oct/06/fiction" target="_blank">James Wood</a>, writing in October 2001, about the possible impact of the attack on the novel in general, and novels about New York in particular: <br /><q>Fiction may well be, as Stendhal wrote, a mirror carried down the?</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 13:57:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jackie Clark</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212035#post212035</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212035#post212035</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Oh, I've just got the Cookbook Collector out of the library! Good. I also enjoyed Don deLillo's novel, Falling Man.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 13:59:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Carol Stewart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212056#post212056</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212056#post212056</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Thanks Jackie for that suggestion. I have <em>Falling Man</em> sitting on my bedside table (snapped up at a school book fair, of all places) so will move him up the queue. <em>The Reluctant Fundamentalist</em> is now on my list too. <br />Jolisa &ndash; thank you very much for your interesting thoughts.?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 14:45:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212081#post212081</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212081#post212081</guid>
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						<p><q>But I read the ending three times and am still not entirely sure what actually happened, in the end. </q></p><p>You are not alone on that one.  What <em>did</em> happened?  I need to read it again, possibly more than once.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 15:50:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212168#post212168</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212168#post212168</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						You know what, I think (on reflection) that the ending of <em>The Reluctant Fundamentalist</em> is meant to be unfinished, wide open and (like the title) completely ambiguous.  It's a little frustrating, given the thriller-like structure of the novel, not to find out What Happened; but I think the author very?
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 02:49:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212170#post212170</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212170#post212170</guid>
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						<p><q>(Is there a NZ parallel &ndash; 'I was, in four and a half years, never a New Zealander; I was immediately an Aucklander'?? OK, maybe Wellington?)</q></p><p>Yes, Wellington.  I only lived there for a year 22 years ago, but tend to support Wellington teams and associate with a 'Wellington State?</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 07:36:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ross Mason</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212174#post212174</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212174#post212174</guid>
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						<p>Dubya &ndash; but mainly his henchmen &ndash; lost the plot when he announced "you are either for us or against us". He wasn't doing too bad up to that point. Everything afterwards was/is a sham. The lies, the deceit, the gas, the oil.</p><p>And isn't Asia is much pleasanter way?</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 10:30:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212176#post212176</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212176#post212176</guid>
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						<p><q>OK, maybe Wellington?</q></p><p>Ok, so I only just had the chance to watch that video.  Talk about 'Warning!'  That's not quite the 'shirts off' for Wellington I remember.  Mine was more poets, dealer galleries, Downstage, the NAG and Iconographers, but YMMV.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 11:32:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212209#post212209</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212209#post212209</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Completely expectedly, the <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-analysis.html" target="_blank">New Yorker</a> has an interesting and varied round-up of its writers? reactions. <br />You might be curious about how US law interprets the <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/bin-laden-the-rules-of-engagement.html" target="_blank">?rules of engagement?</a> (bin Laden was apparently classed as an enemy combatant). <br />Comments following are less-than-convinced. <br />There?s so much more that could- and no doubt?</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 23:20:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212210#post212210</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212210#post212210</guid>
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						<p>What was (also) lost: <a href="http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/04/classics-diana-wynne-jones-r-i-p/" target="_blank">Diana Wynn Jones.</a> :-( <br />(also a good article about Chch in the latest Werewolf- thanks Gordon Campbell)</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 23:23:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>ChrisW</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212218#post212218</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212218#post212218</guid>
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						<q>Dubya &ndash; but mainly his henchmen &ndash; lost the plot when he announced "you are either for us or against us". </q> Bush may have said this later, but in the first instance he put it in more profoundly extreme binary form &ndash; "either you are with us, or you are?
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				<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 08:07:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=212221#post212221</link>
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						<p><q>(Is there a NZ parallel ? ?I was, in four and a half years, never a New Zealander; I was immediately an Aucklander??? OK, maybe Wellington?)</q></p><p>Several people have posted here in recent months about how the earthquake made them realise that they were from Christchurch in ways they hadn't?</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 09:11:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lynley Chapman</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223369#post223369</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223369#post223369</guid>
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						<p>Jolisa I have just read the article, based on this post, in KiwiParent and wanted to let you know that I was deeply moved by what you wrote. I had missed your post here earlier this year.</p><p> It is one of the meatiest, indepth pieces that has appeared in that?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:41:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jolisa</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223472#post223472</link>
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						Lynley, thank you so much for these extraordinarily kind words. And thank you for joining here, in order to say them. I hope you'll stick around!
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				<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:26:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223492#post223492</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223492#post223492</guid>
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						<p><q>In the 1960s, a lot of Baby Boomers were disrespectful of World War II. Gee, Mom and Dad, why do you keep going on about the war? It's over. Get with the '60s, you squares. It's the age of Aquarius.</q><br />Which is why <em>Slaughterhouse 5</em> is such great art. It?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:03:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223493#post223493</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223493#post223493</guid>
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						That does not conform with my family experience at all Joe- my father couldnt serve overseas (he was found to have a dickie heart, that killed him when he was 42.) My beloved uncle couldnt serve overseas with his best mate &ndash; he was discovered to have tubercular-scarred lungs, and?
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				<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:26:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223494#post223494</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223494#post223494</guid>
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						<p><q>We didnt forget them, we honoured them. But we didnt glorify the wars either -</q><br />I can't claim to have been quite so noble, especially during the Muldoon era. Still I do find it useful to remember, when people talk about the collective sins of "baby boomers",  that there were?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:57:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223496#post223496</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223496#post223496</guid>
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						My uncle's best mate, Tui McNeill (possibly best known for being busted to the ranks from being a lieutenant *- or maybe for being part of the gang that had a dead pig on a rescue stretcher, hurried in from a front line in Italy) only ever made sure my?
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				<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 20:15:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223515#post223515</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223515#post223515</guid>
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						<p><q>In the 1960s, a lot of Baby Boomers were disrespectful of World War II. Gee, Mom and Dad, why do you keep going on about the war? It's over. Get with the '60s, you squares. It's the age of Aquarius..</q></p><p>Gentleman: Don't take that tone with me, young man. I?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:32:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223516#post223516</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223516#post223516</guid>
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						Heh. I forgot that line. That film is so fucking ace.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:42:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223519#post223519</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/busytown-what-was-lost/?p=223519#post223519</guid>
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						<p>I recently re-watched Help!</p><p>My 8-year old self enjoyed the Ker-Ay-Zee!!!11!1!!! antics a lot more than his older counterpart....</p><p>But I'm prepared to forgive them, because 'Yellow Submarine' is Teh Awsum.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:09:07 +1200</pubDate>
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