Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: People Take Drugs

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Hell, I consider anything I post on the internet as ‘released into the wild’. So go crazy, you crazy kids, with your twitter and your blogging and your hip hop and whatnot. Use and abuse it how you like.

    I just tagged your house. Looks sweet, bro.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18969 posts Report Reply

  • Rex Widerstrom, in reply to Rich Lock,

    We should probably start legislating against the placebo effect.

    Funny you should say that. The Declaration of Helsinki has been moving medical research toward that very position:

    The implication being that placebos are not permitted where proven interventions are available.

    Which is kind of understandable from a humanitarian perspective - giving sick people drugs that you know don't work is something that only research doctors and Bond villains would dream of doing.

    But OTOH if it's adopted it's going to make it damned hard to ascertain what does work. Enter scifi scenario of cloned beings used for drug research, organ harvesting etc.

    Okay having now totally sucked the life out of a very witty comment, I'll slink back into my corner...

    Perth, Western Australia • Since Nov 2006 • 157 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Nah I think they basically thought asking folks to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into a public building was just rude.

    I can't agree with this sentiment. If it's not shown to be harming anyone else, and it's a public place, this seems like undue meddling to me.

    sometimes driven by working in an industry which requires long and unsocial hours.

    For example, use of amphetamines is supposed to be rife throughout the US meatpacking industry, where the work is physically very difficult, and the wages are insanely low.

    Yes, they're popular with long-haul truck drivers, for whom staying awake is a matter of life and death.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew, in reply to BenWilson,

    Just like tagging, public place, don't hurt noone. It just isn't very pretty. Neither iswalking thru a cloud of smoke to get into a cafe.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 841 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to BenWilson,

    I can’t agree with this sentiment. If it’s not shown to be harming anyone else, and it’s a public place, this seems like undue meddling to me

    Littering doesn't harm anyone either.

    Davis is an odd town, but don't knock it until you've experienced it. The smokers figured out where they could go and that was fine. Nobody objected to them smoking so long as they didn't inconvenience anyone else. The definition of inconvenience in Davis amounted to breathing someone else's unpleasant smell.

    Note this is also the town where there was a noise complaint upheld for snoring, they built a tunnel under the freeway for the frogs and they refused to repair the potholes in a dead end street because they felt by that time the potholes had become an ecosystem that should be preserved.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3420 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Note this is also the town where there was a noise complaint upheld for snoring, they built a tunnel under the freeway for the frogs and they refused to repair the potholes in a dead end street because they felt by that time the potholes had become an ecosystem that should be preserved.

    You're not really selling it to me. There's unpleasant smells all over public places...in rubbish bins, for instance, and in toilets.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • vangam, in reply to BenWilson,

    There’s unpleasant smells all over public places…in rubbish bins, for instance, and in toilets.

    Indeed, try driving thru Smellfast (read: Belfast) everyday.

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to BenWilson,

    You’re not really selling it to me

    Ok how about this then, the folks there decided that some people didn't like walking through clouds of smoke to get into buildings. They put a proposal to the city council, it was put out to public ballot and the majority imposed their tyrannical will on the minority.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3420 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    t was put out to public ballot and the majority imposed their tyrannical will on the minority.

    Heh!
    Mind you, I could love a place that built a tunnel for treefrogs...when one of my family visited Big O for the first time, she wondered why on earth the leaves seemed to be __hopping__in the headlights-
    next morning, looking at several dozen little squishes on the road - after I'd done my spiel about the way they'll move in a breeding swarm- she said sadly, "You should build them a tunnel-"

    we've thought about it, over the years...but those breeding swarms have become so rare now.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    This is why I think P/crystal meth (as opposed to common or garden 'speed') is a particular problem. Okay, the documentary is about five years old, but it does have the advantage of some evidential content:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/

    Craig Y

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Major “WTF?!” moment for me: a junkie repeatedly sticking an empty needle into his vein, compulsively, because he hadn’t been able to get on for more than a day.

    The junky was trying to release that dopamine, like the loosing at gambling stuff.

    The guy in the street who was making homebake heroin had a much better grip on being a reasonable neighbour. But he’s dead now.

    Thats a bit grim on first reading, but for all I know, he might have been a ninety three year old.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2751 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    For reasons I can't be bothered going into I stumbled upon this guy...
    Also known as Dr. Ecstasy by the New York Times.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4896 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    They put a proposal to the city council, it was put out to public ballot and the majority imposed their tyrannical will on the minority.

    The majority of people who bothered to respond, that is?

    But sure, that sounds like due process. It doesn't make me agree with the people of that town, though.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Young,

    This is why I think P/crystal meth (as opposed to common or garden ‘speed’) is a particular problem.

    My non-expert guess is that there are two issues that make this so:

    1. Crystal methamphetamine versus other amphetamines, such as amphetamine sulphate. It seems to have a particular effect.

    2. Means of administration. Inhaling methamphetamine vapour gives a big, immediate and repeatable rush. But the effects also last for eight hours or so, every repeat just loads in more to the bloodstream. People aren't trying to stay up for a week -- they're just trying to get another immediate rush. Staying awake for a week is kind of a side effect.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18969 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to Russell Brown,

    It's basically like the difference between crack and cocaine. It's really the same drug but the method of administration makes a huge difference to the rush received.

    I have known several people who used p very heavily and only two of them ended up 'fucked' from it (one ended up in a psych ward after his neighbours saw him covering his lightbulbs with tin foil - would have been funny if it weren't so sad) and they both injected it. If smoking is worse than snorting then injecting is far worse than smoking.

    Since Jun 2010 • 323 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Outrageous Importune...

    But I'm too middle-class...

    fie on such protestations - working title
    Foghorn's Lament; Buoys will be buoys...
    now get writing....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5060 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to BenWilson,

    But sure, that sounds like due process. It doesn’t make me agree with the people of that town, though.

    No. Just as I wouldn't really want to live anywhere that classes some drunk pissing in public (which we can all agree is gross and unsanitary) as sexual offending -- especially if we ever end up with the kind of compulsory sex offender registration that makes Garth McVicar jizz in his pants.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    No. Just as I wouldn’t really want to live anywhere that classes some drunk pissing in public (which we can all agree is gross and unsanitary) as sexual offending – especially if we ever end up with the kind of compulsory sex offender registration that makes Garth McVicar jizz in his pants.

    I know of one case in America -- a friend of a friend -- where precisely that happened. Guy took a leak down an alley by a bar in a California town, got sprung, wound up on a 10-year sex offender register. Completely and utterly insane.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18969 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to bmk,

    If smoking is worse than snorting then injecting is far worse than smoking.

    Not so sure about that. Smoking (well, technically vapourizing in the case of P) is a virtually immediate hit, and you can have any quantity you like. So there's really no difference, other than needle tracks in the arm. I expect smoking is safer, less chance of infection, or killing yourself accidentally with bubbles or bad drugs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I know of one case in America -- a friend of a friend -- where precisely that happened. Guy took a leak down an alley by a bar in a California town, got sprung, wound up on a 10-year sex offender register. Completely and utterly insane.

    Whereas a lawyer friend of mine here in NZ managed to acquit a client from all charges for public urination. The judge threw the case out as a complete waste of court time. I think he took exception to the hyperbole in the police report which described a "raging torrent" of piss, and figured that they were just vexatiously charging someone they didn't like whom they couldn't bust for anything real.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to BenWilson,

    No there is a limit how much you can put in a pipe, lungful. Whereas you can dissolve a lot into a needle. The heavy users I know who smoked would smoke furiously for an hour to get high whereas the injectors would have one quick injection to instantly consume an equivalent amount of meth.

    Since Jun 2010 • 323 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to BenWilson,

    Smoking is definitely safer cause alluding to my previous point you can in one needle have a lethal dose where you cannot smoke a lethal dose as your lungs will cough etc and prevent anymore being injested.

    Since Jun 2010 • 323 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to bmk,

    They can't have been smoking that furiously, it vaporizes very quickly. But yes, I suppose when you're taking enormous amounts, injecting is quicker. But we're talking really, really huge volumes. A gram of P could be vaporized in a few minutes. That's a pretty large dose. Hardened users would expect it to last a weekend. It's usually sold in "points", which are 0.1 of a gram, your standard session.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to BenWilson,

    It's not a matter of vaporising speed but lung capacity. Even a point makes a lot of smoke and requires numerous melts. I have watched people smoke a point as fast as they can - vaporise - breathe in - breathe out - repeat and this process takes a lot longer than to inject the same amount.

    Since Jun 2010 • 323 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to bmk,

    Depends how much air you take in, but yes, I take your point that you could quite possibly mainline 10 grams in go, which would probably take many hours to smoke. Your anecdote that the injectors fucked themselves up is probably most of the reason that it's not a popular method. Smokers seems to have no problem getting sky high and become total addicts, without the risk of accidentally stuffing up the dose.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

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