Southerly by David Haywood

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Southerly: One Hundred and Thirty-one Million Reasons to Copenhagenize Christchurch

389 Responses

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  • giovanni tiso, in reply to BenWilson,

    Hard to know for sure, the helmet being compulsory feels a lot more intrusive than the non-compulsory lycra. Also, the helmet fucks up your hair, which I expect matters to women a lot more.

    I was referring to David's posts about helmet laws fostering perceptions of cycle unsafety. I think people on the whole are more worried about looking silly than looking dead.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to BenWilson,

    Hard to know for sure, the helmet being compulsory feels a lot more intrusive than the non-compulsory lycra. Also, the helmet fucks up your hair, which I expect matters to women a lot more.

    My two biggest problems with a helmet were not being able to wear a hat in mid-winter (my warm hats didn't fit under it) and not being able to clip back my fringe. Which are both minor enough to be irrelevant. But it does matter to some people. (The trick, of course, is to get enough cyclists on the road that motorists watch out for them reflexively and helmets become less necessary. Not sure how you get that cart before that horse, if it's discouraging that many people.)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Lisa Black, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    It's both, and they're both enormous factors in getting women cycling. Having great cycling infrastructure in Christchurch would go a long way to making women feel safe.

    The good thing about removing helmet compulsion is that you can still wear one if you want. It's just that you don't HAVE to.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2010 • 71 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Yes, it is baffling why some cardrivers throw things at cyclists (from insults, to empty vodka bottles). What corner of their lives are we threatening? I recently followed a carload of insult-throwers into a Warehouse carpark, pulled up to the driver’s window and asked, “Why were you yelling at me?”. Risky, I know, but they looked shamed–and barely with it, in a fug of pot smoke and beer fumes at 11 o’clock on a weekday morning.

    I have been known to bang on car roofs when they have cut me off but I guess that wouldn’t help car-cyclist relations.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    From a public health perspective, I think cycle helmets are a disaster. Minimal private protection, giving others the impression that the cyclist is then "safe". This misperception of safety is fatal, and people are killed on a regular basis because of it.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Not sure how you get that cart before that horse

    This sounds very dangerous for a start.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I think people on the whole are more worried about looking silly than looking dead.

    Yes, that's why they made helmets compulsory. I remember the poor kid at school who always wore one back when they weren't compulsory, and was mocked pretty much every single day about it, usually by the kids who had cars. Thinking back on him, I'm guessing he was autistic.

    Minimal private protection, giving others the impression that the cyclist is then "safe".

    There's some evidence that even for the purposes of protecting your health in an accident they come with their own dangers. Your head is a little safer, but your neck is much more likely to get twisted.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    What about a name & shame website to report bad drivers by their number plate? On the condition that there's photo or video evidence to back it up.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    not being able to wear a hat in mid-winter (my warm hats didn’t fit under it)

    I have a thin merino beanie which fits nicely under my helmet as long as I twiddle the wheel at the back (of the helmet) to make a little more room.

    I'll be wearing a helmet whether they're compulsory or not. But I understand the argument that there could be a net public health gain in making them optional. Not so much the psychological one that helmet=safety, therefore it's OK to take risks. I think most accidents occur when motorists simply haven't seen a cyclist.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to BenWilson,

    There’s some evidence that even for the purposes of protecting your health in an accident they come with their own dangers.

    No safety precaution is helpful in all circumstances. I know a guy who had a car accident when he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and was thrown into the passenger footwell...which saved him from being crushed by the tree he'd just smashed into. Most times, wearing a seatbelt makes you safer, sometimes not. It's a balance of probabilities thing, and I'm guessing it's the same with cycle helmets. (happy to be corrected by someone who knows differently, o'course!)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    The safety of cycle helmets is something that people take as an article of faith. They are a small bit of polystyrene, covered with a plastic shell, no less, no more. What that polystyrene is designed to do is decrease the force of impact, firstly by compressing and then shattering, and secondly (although they are not particularly optimised for this) by distributing those forces across a greater area of skull. They do this to some extent, although it is not huge. This is a benefit. Tthey are tested simply with a weight dropped straightforwardly from a height. They are not designed to prevent rotation, which they are proven to worsen. Rotational injuries are very severe. They mean that a straightforward force on the brain is turned into a torsional one, and instead of a localised injury, large parts of the brain can be injured. This is not a benefit.

    I don't claim to know if the harm prevented is less or greater than the harm caused. I do think that the balance against helmets is pretty clear when all other factors are considered however.

    Sorry to go into detail, and I want this to be about infrastructure rather than helemt wars, but Lilith's post really couldn't go uncommented on.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Maz, in reply to Lilith __,

    Re helmets:
    You are much more likely to sustain serious head injury driving a car without wearing a helmet, than you are cycling without a helmet. I know it sounds strange, and that you wouldn't get any motorists into a helmet, but it is true. And this is per capita and distance travelled.
    Helmet safety is a myth, and hi-viz clothing isn't much better. It is all about awareness. The number of times I've been hit by motorists, who then burst out, "ooh, I didn't see you" (while I was wearing flouro orange and three flashing lights) is staggering.
    David, sorry for the hi-jack. Very good article (oh, and I grew up in Copenhagen).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • JackElder, in reply to Lilith __,

    I think most accidents occur when motorists simply haven’t seen a cyclist.

    Indeed. I often think that the main thing keeping me safe on the roads is the high cost of panelbeating; people have an abstract interest in keeping me alive, but a concrete interest in their paintwork. Even in cases where I've been buzzed or swerved at, the drivers were trying to scare me rather than actually hit me. It's the drivers who don't see me that worry me. So you ride in an assertive, predictable manner, in such a way as to maximise your visibility. For example, it's a good idea to ride at least a metre out from parked cars not just to avoid being doored, but to increase your visibility to other cars further up that might be about to pull out.

    Wellington • Since Mar 2008 • 709 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to BenWilson,

    After mucking around for ages searching for the hole, I realized all that was wrong with it was that she had not understood how to operate the hand pump, and it was just a bit flat.

    That just sounds soo wrong, the incompetence these days is astounding.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Alice Ronald, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Considering the ineptitude I've experienced at a local bike shop recently, it's not that surprising.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 63 posts Report Reply

  • RaggedJoe,

    Hat's off to those who do cycle commute in Auckland, I am simply not brave enough. Done plenty of on and off road riding, but things like Mt Wellington hwy and Pakuranga hwy are simply to daunting.

    PS: Can we please have a Coco's in NZ!!!

    [(http://www.cocosvariety.com/)]

    City of Sales • Since Sep 2008 • 72 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to George Darroch,

    The safety of cycle helmets is something that people take as an article of faith.

    Others do research
    A case-control study of the effectiveness of bicycle safety helmets

    Seven percent of the case patients were wearing helmets at the time of their head injuries, as compared with 24 percent of the emergency room controls and 23 percent of the second control group. Of the 99 cyclists with serious brain injury only 4 percent wore helmets. In regression analyses to control for age, sex, income, education, cycling experience, and the severity of the accident, we found that riders with helmets had an 85 percent reduction in their risk of head injury (odds ratio, 0.15; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.07 to 0.29) and an 88 percent reduction in their risk of brain injury (odds ratio, 0.12; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.04 to 0.40).

    We conclude that bicycle safety helmets are highly effective in preventing head injury. Helmets are particularly important for children, since they suffer the majority of serious head injuries from bicycling accidents.

    Sound convincing eh?
    However..

    To be consistent and just, the public health benefit of mandatory helmet wearing for cycling needs to be viewed in the context of similar requirements for other road users, especially as research has suggested that motoring helmets are more effective than cycle helmets, and motor vehicle occupants suffer many more head injuries

    So, helmets for car passengers too?. Now who is going to get sniggered at?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • James Green, in reply to JackElder,

    I often think that the main thing keeping me safe on the roads is the high cost of panelbeating; people have an abstract interest in keeping me alive, but a concrete interest in their paintwork.

    My experience of cycling round Venice, Santa Monica and further inland would attest to this. There not so much the cost of panel-beating as being sued. I felt much safer cycling there (with no helmet) than here with a helmet. Also in play might be the sheer width of the roads (although then there is the sheer size of things that might hit you as well). On a street with consecutive 4-way stops, it was always fun to beat (easily) Porshe, Aston Martin et al.

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Steve, did you even look at the page you were linking to? I do not think it means what you think it means.

    ETA: It appears you are endorsing Thompson, Rivara & Thompson 1989, rather than the counter-arguments made by BHRF on that page an the rest of the site, but I can't be sure. I don't want to assume.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    So, helmets for car passengers too?. Now who is going to get sniggered at?.

    I remember a bloke in Auckland way back in the early 70s who drove around with a helmet on in his car, he insisted his passengers wore one to. He even made TV and the newspaper. Treated as a queer prick.

    Ahead of his time?? And from a previous comment .....Autistic??

    I can't help thinking that if you ride sitting up (a la Copenhagen video) then the chance of heading south onto your head may be reduced.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to George Darroch,

    Steve, did you even look at the page you were linking to? I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Yes but I made my point badly, edited to clarify.
    The point I was trying to make was that helmets are ok if you happen to fall off your bike and bang your head but worth very little when you get hit by a truck.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • James Green, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Others do research

    And this research seems very strongly contested. The stats you source are from a 1989 paper. The same authors produced a Cochrane Review on cycle helmets in 2009, but which has been criticized for including mostly their own studies. This stuff would take a long time to unpick (more time that I have this afternoon). But I note that the most recent meta-analysis finds the effectiveness of cycle helmets to be declining with time.

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    in Japan, motorway patrol cops--in cars--wear helmets.

    cycle helmets are not compulsory in Japan.
    my own observation is that in Tokyo 10 years ago, less than 5% of children wore cycle helmets (1-3%). Recently, it's maybe 20%.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I remember the poor kid at school who always wore one back when they weren’t compulsory, and was mocked pretty much every single day about it, usually by the kids who had cars.

    That was me, except there really wasn't much mocking. I did that for about six months, and then Mum (through my Dad who was on the board of trustees) got the school to make them compulsory when riding to and from school. Probably not to make me feel like less of a loser, she worked at Starship Hospital and worked with kids who had had head injuries so she felt pretty strongly about it.

    And then a year or two later the law followed. Basically it's all my Mum's fault.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to stephen walker,

    in Japan, motorway patrol cops–in cars–wear helmets

    I believe certain NZ cities plan to introduce them for bus drivers.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

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