Southerly by David Haywood

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Southerly: One Hundred and Thirty-one Million Reasons to Copenhagenize Christchurch

389 Responses

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  • Joe Wylie, in reply to James Green,

    . . . the proposed cycle lanes for the central city look good!!

    All part of what the emperor now declares to be a pretty big wish list.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3328 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Also, none of that professional planning restricting the superior intelligence of the free market. Every city can look like downtown Auckland if they're left alone.

    [Canterbury Employers' Chamber of Commerce chief executive Peter] Townsend said the plan needed to provide an "aspirational framework", and should not be too prescriptive.

    "If they're going to strictly limit the areas of retail space that you're allowed to occupy or if there's too much restriction on where in the city and how high it can be, I would rather see that done through sensible community consensus ..."

    Someone do ask him what he means by that last phrase.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    More reesponse to proposed building heights.

    "I think the height is going to be an issue for some property owners," Paul Lonsdale from the Central City Business Association told TV ONE's Breakfast.

    "You've got hotels that were traditionally 30 metres but now they're restricted to 17 metres.

    "I suppose what I would suggest, if that is enforced, is they build a structure that could take another 13 metres at some later stage when people's mood changes towards the concern around earthquakes."

    Lonsdale supported the moves to create a smaller CBD, saying it would create a vibrant focus for retail activity.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Sacha,

    is they build a structure that could take another 13 metres at some later stage when people’s mood changes towards the concern around earthquakes.

    It's not just about fear, though. It's also about letting light into the city, and particularly around the Square, which was quite literally over-shadowed by some of those hotels. If you want another 13 metres, build slightly further out from the newly-ensmallened CBD.

    When I see the building-height sketches of the proposed CDB, what strikes me immediately is that the highest point is the spire of the Cathedral. That feels right. It's also what the community said it wanted.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4328 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    It's also what the community said it wanted

    And watch that get overturned by lobbying during the next stage of the process. Developer profits uber alles. Just ask Gerry.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    Surely the building height is a matter for the building code and should be set according to engineering principles? It's possible to build tall buildings that withstand big earthquakes - whether it's economic to do so is another matter.

    The city plan should be about what's appropriate from an urban design point of view, not what can safely be built.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4362 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Sacha,

    Also, none of that professional planning restricting the superior intelligence of the free market. Every city can look like downtown Auckland if they’re left alone.

    Well, every city can look like Auckland if you deliberately design the roads and zoning to encourage sprawl...

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 799 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    the Minister may make any changes ... to the draft Recovery Plan as he or she thinks fit

    The people advise, Gerry ignores.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4362 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to James Butler,

    if you deliberately design the roads and zoning to encourage sprawl

    and who do you imagine lobbied for that?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    Why accept the CCC spin on the building heights? The public when con-sulted (hyphen intended) asked overwhelmingly for no higher than four storeys, preferably two. The CCC has extended that to seven over a reasonably large chunk of the central city. Analyse the height of the buildings in that area until September 4 and you will find many, many, many didn't even reach four storeys. So we're going to end up with a much higher rise city overall than has been.

    That is not the city of low-rise, wooden buildings asked for. Look around and see what's being hurled up before building regs are made more stringent: more tilt-slab horrors. No doubt in shades of grey, wet tussock, dry tussock, damp sand and silt as specified by the latest Resene colour chart. (Which are all relations of beige, and which is why Christchurch people love them so. Aargh.)

    I do like the river park, but Gerry Brownlee has already ruled out the suburban red zones along the river to the estuary being re-wilded so that's a major greening-the-city opportunity lost.

    As for light rail, useless unless it becomes the main commuter transport for the Waimak, and Selwyn growth areas. The plan I saw only took it to Hornby and Papanui; why when Rolleston and environs are going to have explosive growth and the Rangiora/Kaiapoi area is currently a commuter nightmare. Half-a billion for what? The per-trip cost will be hideous.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Con-sultation.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Hebe,

    con-insultation

    where one party sniggers at another involved-but-relatively- powerless party's
    lack of whack-

    until the riots come-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    Why accept the CCC spin on the building heights?

    What am I accepting? I agree with Emma that light is a more compelling motivation than fear. Someone on another thread also explained that high-rise buildings were if anything more eco-friendly than 4-floor ones, so it's not a clear-cut matter.

    But I'm mostly struck by the politics of the announcement and the language of the parties opposed to regulations.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Hebe,

    Con-sultation.

    Duh.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3328 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    Sorry, not meaning to be confrontationalistic. The politics of the announcement were all show, again: Thursday release, in time for Key's Friday visit, so the Weekend Press can unpick it all, but not quite enough time for the journos and thinkers to do more than a once-over. So public, with limited attention span and a whole heap else to do in their lives, read the paper on Saturday, think "oh, not bad." and don't think they need to submit. Nothing to frighten the horses on the consultation path there. Chamber of Commerce boys meanwhile get lobbying the National Party on the height limits and various other impediments to the free market. Don't expect any big decisions from the Govt until after the election, then it will be that the rebuild plans are too expensive and too prescriptive.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Islander,

    Do we get riots too? As well as the World Cup; I can't wait. Been a while since I had a good protest.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    violent agreement

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Sacha,

    Long as I can bring over my Coast blasters (not less than a trillion tonnnes per hour or so-in a good storm) I'm with you-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Islander,

    Hey we could do like 1981: rugby and riots all in one glorious package. Bugger, can't remember the chants though. We'll need senility flash cards for the bit after 2-4-6-8, we don't want your bloody quake...

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    AKT blog touches on the light rail side of the plan, with more info and links in the comments. One of them notes:

    It will be interesting to see if the Greens get 10%+ of the vote, then the government of day would have battle with the Greens over any watering down of the proposed rebuild.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16281 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Sacha,

    t will be interesting to see if the Greens get 10%+ of the vote, then the government of day would have battle with the Greens over a

    Wee bet*: Greens get plus 12% of the party vote: Labour regains at least one Maori seat, and the Maori party is electorally annihilated. The Southern swing is a probability- so said, several months ago in the feeling that the South will spring 2 surprises.

    Any takers?

    *Depending on who you are, I'll offer my terms-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    Good link. As one of the commenters mentioned, the problem is the small market, 400,000 people spread out over a reasonably large area is big spend for a small market. BTW, the light rail idea came from the previous mayor Gary Moore, who repeatedly tried to put it up as a possibility. He's on the LTSA now; don't know if that will count for anything when it comes to funding decisions.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Wind tunnels too; Hereford St east of the Square used to be foul.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Earthquake risk hasn't stopped the Japanese or the Californians from building upwards, so surely it can't stop ChCh from doing the same.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4064 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    "I suppose what I would suggest, if that is enforced, is they build a structure that could take another 13 metres at some later stage when people's mood changes towards the concern around earthquakes."

    The prick who said that demonstrates how to pass "Progress and Development 101":

    How to get a council to say "GO" to building a suburb on a swamp AND an ex tip.

    Time is a wonderful tool for the deft hand of a developer.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1479 posts Report Reply

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