Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Respectably-Dressed Sensible Demure Lady Stroll

457 Responses

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  • Susan Snowdon,

    It’s still wrong to rape drunk people.

    Yup. No-one's disputing that.

    Since Mar 2008 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings, in reply to Susan Snowdon,

    I thought that the interviewees pointed out simply that a lot of sexual abuse was associated with excessive alcohol consumption

    Did they mainly focus on alcohol abuse by the abuser or by their victim?

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Isabel Hitchings,

    Did they mainly focus on alcohol abuse by the abuser or by their victim?

    That was my immediate response, yes.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Kate Hannah, in reply to nzlemming,

    thanks: will have a listen and see if the discussion is more reasonable than the hideous promo which was well beneath Ms Ryan

    Auckland • Since Mar 2010 • 107 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I only heard a bit of it, but the part I heard irritated me. (I am particularly likely to be irritated by the way this issue is discussed, though.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3661 posts Report Reply

  • Kate Hannah, in reply to Danielle,

    Right - given I'm fighting off seasonal affective disorder with new shoes and workplace hilarity, would you suggest that it would be better for my health to avoid listening? I'm happy to have opinions on things I haven't listened to at this late stage in my highly opinionated career..... and given I'm also particularly likely ot be irritated by the way this issue tends to be discussed, I'm happy to take your advice.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2010 • 107 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey,

    I heard a bit of it and was concerned that we always always seem to talk about the behaviour of the person raped, prior to, during, afterwards, but never the behaviour of the rapist. I didn't hear all of it though, so was hoping that there was some bit I didn't hear that addressed that, or at least mentioned the limitations of this way of looking at it.

    Orcland • Since Dec 2007 • 217 posts Report Reply

  • Susan Snowdon,

    I think there was a comment at some stage about the abuser being too intoxicated to comprehend lack of consent. Again, not an excuse, just a factor.

    Since Mar 2008 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Because of reasons, I was quite excited to see this op-ed in the Dom Post this morning.

    Slutwalk takes aim at rapists

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1323 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Deborah,

    That's heartening to see in a big publication.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8591 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Deborah,

    Much of the commentary is surprisingly readable, too.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2161 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Tracey Barnett in the Herald. She's going, dressed as a radish.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Tracey Barnett in the Herald. She’s going, dressed as a radish.

    Do hope she'll leave that waggling "false consciousness, bitches" finger at home. Sorry, I know I checked out a while back but it needed to be said.

    Here's now I see it, Trace, perhaps it's not the women who have police their "messages" but... well, the very editors (all male, AFAIK) who gave your column a nice slut-shaming headline.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Do hope she’ll leave that waggling “false consciousness, bitches” finger at home. Sorry, I know I checked out a while back but it needed to be said.

    I thought the point about how the media will always pick up on the prurient angle was reasonably well made. The more general thrust – that making rape about sex is wrong because it’s really about violence – seems to me to be missing the whole point of the victim blaming that these marches are reacting to, which is in fact about dress codes and sexuality, and the wider implications thereof.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I thought the point about how the media would always pick up on the prurient angle was reasonably well made.

    Up to a point. I’d have been more impressed, though, if she’d unequivocally put ownership for that where it belongs – which isn’t on anyone wearing a bustier tomorrow. To be a little cynical, I guess you don’t shit where you eat .

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    which isn’t on anyone wearing a bustier tomorrow

    I think it's a long bow to suggest that she was blaming the skimpily dressed. And I think there is some truth in the fact that thinking that you can usefully redirect the prurience of the media is misguided. (See under: people who go starkers for a cause never actually draw attention to the cause itself.) But it just so happens in this case then going out dressed however the hell you want, revealing whatever the hell you want, makes the correct kind of statement, and how this will be reported on is somewhat irrelevant.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7386 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Couple of points - Emma, nice job in the Listener, and re Listener article, finished most of it, seems to sum things up fairly well.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Looks like a lovely day for a Slutwalk in Wellington. Sadly, while I had planned to be there, health issues mean I won't be leaving the house today. I hope it goes well for everyone.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2161 posts Report Reply

  • Robert Urquhart,

    Just saw Megan saying her bit on TV1 news. Spiffy.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2009 • 142 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The TVNZ web story refers to "hundreds of skimpily clad" people. It's fairly staggering how inaccurate a characterisation of the actual crowd this is.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Photos of Slutwalk WLG now online. Unfortunately couldn’t join the march proper due to work commitments.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4353 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Also, is Alasdair Thompson the Simon Whipp of employer lobbyists? Not in the sense of militancy, but pushing one's luck.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4353 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Robert Urquhart,

    Heh. Spiffy? That word would be more suitably applied to Emma, Oliver and Tom, surely?

    Photos of Slutwalk WLG now online.

    I am stealing one of those (If I may)! Thank you.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Just saw Megan saying her bit on TV1 news. Spiffy.

    +1. Good job.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6205 posts Report Reply

  • Oliver [Redacted], in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Tom and Emma, certainly. I fear the hat made my head look even more freakishly large than usual

    Wellington • Since Apr 2011 • 4 posts Report Reply

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