Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Bishop Brian: It's worse than you think

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  • DeepRed,

    And there is a term for those who cut back Women's Refuges and give it to fundy cults, and who tell us city rail loops are wasteful but holiday highways are not.

    They're called deficit chickenhawks.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4365 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew, in reply to DeepRed,

    They're called deficit chickenhawks.

    Boy, Ah say Boy! He's about as sharp as a pound of wet liver, that boy...

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 841 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    I can understand why they wouldn’t do that either. To me it would be rude to accept an invitation to a church or something else, speak one thing while there, and then walk outside and say another thing to the cameras.

    Why would they be in that position? What “thing” would they have said to their hosts that would then be contradicted by stating (in this case) their position on homosexuality etc to Campbell Live or the stuff reporter?

    Also, there is nothing rude about accepting an invite to something like this, and disagreeing with some of the positions your hosts hold. I’d say being completely obsequious is the rude behaviour – you’re patronising your hosts, not respecting them.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    and for his next stunt “Bishop” Brian will ................

    The event is just bullshit the Destiny Church conference and the four politicians that attended are in effect endorsing Bishop Brian's vision of his own greatness. Thumbs up to Campbell live for running the story.

    I can understand Jones, Henare and Sharples being there, they are whoring for votes, but Hone with what is a left of the "true left" position; there is nothing there for him and he undermines himself. Perhaps Hone wanted to observe from a master the finer points of managing a personality cult.

    I am not in favour of the state providing funding for the marketing initiatives of religious fanatics whose spiritual leaders ‘teachings’ are in essence hate speech.

    ……………. ascend into heaven and tell God how it is going to be.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1201 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    all show and charisma with very little analysis,

    And shitty analogies.

    and secondly, the moment you challenge them beyond the limits of their knowledge or experience – which generally isn’t particularly broad – they’ll disengage, and refer to you back to Tamaki. Destiny isn’t the only church that does this – in my experience, evangelicals tend to have an underlying culture of fear when it comes to actually hitting the streets. The premise is that once they’re spreading their faith in the wild, they’re open to persecution. The moment someone disagrees with them, and *especially* if they start feeling uncomfortable or unsure how to respond, that’s a form of spiritual attack. That in itself immediately affirms their actions – “I’m being persecuted, therefore I’m doing God’s work” – which means that most of their effort goes into learning convenient ways to rebut challenging questions,

    Thank you for laying it out so plainly the mental gymnastics that goes on behind those supposedly secure beliefs.

    For what it’s worth I’ve no idea what to believe now, but still tend toward the existence of some kind of super-natural. (shrug)

    I'm kinda pissed my natural career path of crazy hermit in remote, difficult to get to location, isnt a viable option anymore.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1231 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to DeepRed,

    Georgina Beyer wasn’t Godwinning when she likened the original march to a ‘Nuremburg rally’.

    Oh, God, yes she was. I’m sure we thrashed this dead horse into a steaming pile of fresh jellymeat at the time, but if you’re really going to equate citizens of a democracy (however vile) holding a lawful and peaceful march with a fascist jamboree… Well, I’m not so sure I like the dog being whistled for – not least because there’s more than enough to pin Density for without going anywhere near that line.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12040 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to andin,

    I’m kinda pissed my natural career path of crazy hermit in remote, difficult to get to location, isnt a viable option anymore

    There's nothing preventing that option, though these days we'd tend to call them "academics not in residence"

    </badoom style="tish">

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2173 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Actually, Craig, I was there, as Russell was, and it was my thought as well. It was not peaceful, though it may have been lawful (and let's not forget that the Nuremberg rallies were lawful in their time), and it was very threatening.

    You weren't there so all you got to see was 20-30 seconds on the TV. There was palpable hate in the Parliament forecourt and it was wearing black shirts. It very much evoked the feeling of an organised group of people prepared to do violence at the word of their leader to anyone who did not adhere to their views.

    Sometimes, making these comparisons is not dog-whistling but someone expressing how it genuinely made them feel. And I shared the feeling.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2173 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Drizabonehead...

    He wasn’t being mean about politicians – he obviously meant that his status as a demi-God was far above their earth-bound level.

    and

    I am not in favour of the state providing funding for the marketing initiatives of religious fanatics whose spiritual leaders ‘teachings’ are in essence hate speech.

    welcome to the Demi-Secular world...
    replete with fine whining and dry mediums
    including Bishop Brian "I talk to dead people" Tamaki

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5071 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Georgina Beyer wasn't Godwinning when she likened the original march to a 'Nuremburg rally'. Not long after, the Destinymen mirror-flipped colours and resembled Klansmen minus the hoods.

    So appropriate, that black and white should be their colours, given that that's how they see the world.

    I can't help thinking that it's not completely unreleated that these are also our national colours.


    [Further on colours... On a distant bar tv, the Highlanders now look like the old Warriors.]

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to nzlemming,

    Sometimes, making these comparisons is not dog-whistling but someone expressing how it genuinely made them feel. And I shared the feeling.

    For the second time in 24 hours, I think I’ll just have to say “agree to disagree” and move on. But can I make one observation without anyone pulling out the ‘Craigbot’ bullshit?

    For all I know, Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa still sincerely feels that criticism of the Catholic Church’s handling of clerical abuse is equivalent to Nazi persecution of the Jews. It was still a repugnant thing to say at any time, but down right troll-ish in a sermon in the presence of the fucking Pope on Good Friday.

    As I said, Destiny is quite bad enough without reaching for the lazy Nazi analogy playbook. And I’ve explained my issues with that – or right-wingers like Farrar and WhaleOily comparing Helen Clark to Hitler, Stalin or Robert Mugabe (!) to be even-handed – at length elsewhere.

    YMMV and IMHO, of course.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12040 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    </badoom style="tish">

    nice

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    peaceful

    there's your problem

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to 3410,

    So appropriate, that black and white should be their colours, given that that's how they see the world.

    You can imagine the thought process from the soldiers o Density - "That black didn't go down so well with the public and media; what colour shall we try for our next raised-fist mass tribute?"

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    comparing Helen Clark to Hitler, Stalin or Robert Mugabe

    Yeah cos she was renowned for behaving just like those guys. Well, she was a woman in power, that's close enough for the small-willied amongst us, I guess.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to nzlemming,

    “academics not in residence”

    </badoom style="tish">

    Got me! Now I wish I was one of those. Can I just call myself an academic or do I have to get a qualification?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1231 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to andin,

    Got me! Now I wish I was one of those. Can I just call myself an academic or do I have to get a qualification?

    You really want to?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sacha,

    Yeah cos she was renowned for behaving just like those guys.

    Just as Destiny Church is notorious for systematic and well-documented harassment, intimidation and violence against opposition political parties, unionists and Jewish-owned businesses? They torched any synagogues lately? And while Brian The Bish may have delusions of grandeur, I don't think he's throwing a putsch down the local boozer any time soon.

    there’s your problem

    What's my problem -- that I can have profound disdain for the Destiny Church without trotting out the cheap bullshitty Nazi analogies? It's a problem I can live with.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12040 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to recordari,

    Whats a boy to do?


    damn speed problem

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1231 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Read the experiences relayed above of what those rallies felt like. Not "peaceful" in short.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Katita,

    Funnily enough it's the images of the Sallies on the front line after the Quake in Christchurch that spring to mind (don't recall seeing too many DC black shirts there). And if you're lookng for a religion that's queer, black and female friendly, without the kiddy-fiddling ... then keep looking. I certainly haven't found one that fits me, but I do have a lot of time for the work the Sallies are involved with and they are one of the few charities I give to with any regularity.

    The Maori boys at the Destiny Church conference were a bunch of fat piggies suckling at the teat of a creep with some votes for sale. What the Campbell Live segment brought home to me was that they are all political whores - should we be surprised?

    BTW - where do you think Bishop Brian finds those suits from? There was a whiff of John Rowles about the whole presentation.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Katita,

    BTW - where do you think Bishop Brian finds those suits from? There was a whiff of John Rowles about the whole presentation.

    You're not the first to say that, and they went a step further.

    As if all that’s not bad enough, there are those who think Bishop Brian Tamaki looks like “a cross between Mikey Havoc and John Rowles”.

    And;

    Prism’s Jonathan Marinus invites him to ruminate on the interaction between Christian faith and fashion.

    Orly? Go on then.

    Black appears to be Destiny Church’s colour of choice. Is that a fair comment?

    This is an unfair comment. The colour black has not been designated as Destiny Church’s colour (although it is New Zealand’s colour of choice worn by our national teams in most sporting codes). There was one occasion at Parliament in 2004 where we utilised black Tshirts with white branding because it is visually effective – that’s all there is to it.

    Rumination personified. Visually effective in what sense?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to recordari,

    “a cross between Mikey Havoc and John Rowles”

    ouch

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    where do you think Bishop Brian finds those suits from?

    How about that shoulder-mounted batwing tramp stamp thing? Maybe it's just me, but it looks kinda Satanic.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to recordari,

    Visually effective in what sense?

    To be fair, the Sallies wear not only black, but they wear army uniforms. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to want to convey an organised and united front by choosing a uniform – black, white or orange, whatever, without having people attribute designs of actual guerilla warfare. I think the problem with the march was less about the black shirts and more that church members are so… vehement.

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

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