Southerly by David Haywood

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Southerly: Tower Insurance Have Some Bad News For You

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  • Fooman, in reply to krustacean,

    Have a look at:

    http://www.rebuildchristchurch.co.nz/blog/2011/2/floor-and-foundation-design-standards-for-earthquake-damaged-buildings

    [edit] Which actually takes you to:

    http://www.dbh.govt.nz/earthquake-reconstruction-guidance#app3

    A quick review of the council documentation generally ends up at the Building Act 2004 and various regulations relating to it - the practical stuff is in the Building Code (part of the regulations) and the guidelines from DHB, Branz, etc.

    FM

    Lower Hutt • Since Dec 2009 • 86 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Fooman,

    Excellent. I'm thinking similarly to krustacean (we're just inside the green zone) as we have had small amounts of liquefaction, so the potential must be there for greater amounts.

    The first piece you refer to has this key phrase: "There are five design options to choose from using mainly reinforced concrete for new foundations and floors. However, more design options will be offered over time. A timber option is also available for lightly clad houses that are on certified pile systems. Other options can be developed from these generic plans for more complicated land/or building situations, or to achieve increased levels of performance in future earthquakes." Pressuring insurers and DBH /CCC should mean we can eventually be repaired in way that takes account of the new seismic activity in Christchurch.

    We are content to not be among the first to be repaired.I want to wait at least a couple of years to see how the proposed repairs on our type of house perform. Having had the luxury of EQR make-safeing rendering our house liveable but unpretty, I'm prepared to see how it all pans out for others who are in more of a rush. I see no point having the house repaired then the insurer 'reviewing' cover levels, conditions and adding exclusions (like earthquakes).

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2569 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    PAS thread merge on TV7's court report special tonight. David Haywood and house at the beginning of programme and Arie Smith-Voorkamp at the end of it. (Was about legal stuff in Chch.)

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2026 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood, in reply to krustacean,

    I have asked for a reassessment of my ‘repairable’ house in the redzone…and I made sure to advise them to quote for foundations that are suitable for liquafacted land (not regular undamaged land). AMI responded they would quote for foundations per council regulations

    For AMI to meet the council regulations then they would have to comply with the Building Act. This means that the foundations must comply with the Building Code to at least the same extent as they did before.

    But this does not just mean replacement of the existing foundations with the same system. The severely damaged land has moved the goal-posts (as it were,) so that even a system 100 per cent in compliance with the Building Code on the day before the earthquake would now require very significant modification to be 100 per cent compliant in the post-earthquake context.

    I’ve checked with the CCC and they have confirmed that this analysis of the situation is correct. Of course, in many cases, it is a hell of an engineering job to assess what percentage of compliance a given building's foundations were before the earthquake – and then to somehow duplicate that same percentage of compliance in a rebuilt foundation system. In fact it is so expensive to figure out that it will just be cheaper to bring all replaced foundations into 100 per cent compliance with the Building Code.

    That’s the good news; here’s the bad news…

    I’ve just found out that my insurance company (Tower) does not believe that they have to comply with either the Building Act or the Building Code for the hypothetical repairs. They believe that the EQC legislation gives them an out so that they only have to do the hypothetical repairs on hypothetically undamaged land.

    I don’t know at this stage whether they’re correct or not – but I guess they’ve had their legal weasels go through this pretty thoroughly.

    It’s so drummed into you as an engineer that you have to comply with standards, etc. that it never occurred to me that insurance companies would have got their mum to write them a sick note on this. But quite possibly they have.

    Do you have AMI’s response in writing? On the face of it, it seems that this *would* oblige them to comply with the Building Act/Code and may be crucial to any legal action that you take over this.

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 961 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to David Haywood,

    They believe that the EQC legislation gives them an out so that they only have to do the hypothetical repairs on hypothetically undamaged land.

    I don't know at this stage whether they're correct or not -- but I guess they've had their legal weasels go through this pretty thoroughly.

    It’s so drummed into you as an engineer that you have to comply with standards, etc. that it never occurred to me that insurance companies would have got their mum to write them a sick note on this. But quite possibly they have.

    Sorry to be blunt but that's the govt-sanctioned outcome of the backroom industry negotiations with Brownlee, Joyce, English and co we were discussing on earlier threads. The companies will bluff it out accordingly with a high degree of confidence - and with an incompetent media and political opposition, who can blame them? I hear there's a rugby game or something.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16470 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Owner of demolished antique shop is another casualty of official arrangements.

    I would like thank those people who made it all happen, and hope it never happens to you.

    The person from civil defence who told be that my warehouse was destroyed when it was not even damaged.

    The people from ERNI who never contacted me regarding salvage.

    The policeman who accused me of being a looter while salvageing my posessions and who detained me under the civil defence regulations.
    ...

    The Army person who prevented me from salvaging items but told me I was welcome to pick through the rubble after demolition.

    The person from CERA who removed the approval for salvage from my file.

    The person from CERA who put the building on the urgent list and denied salvage during demolition.

    All the people who never kept me informed of what was happening regards demolition and and salvage and all those people who promised to get back to me who never did.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16470 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    Oh, that’s appalling Sacha. Sadly, I’m not surprised. Why aren’t the media all over stuff like that Portabello Antique shop? It is disgusting the level of care being dished out. What a bunch of greedy inconsiderate bastards. :(
    I gotta go out now with tears in my eyes.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5988 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Why aren't the media all over stuff like that Portabello Antique shop?

    There's been a trickle of fragmented coverage in the Press, but like the Haywood family's plight, and that of Arie Smith-Voorkamp, the media seem only too happy to be willingly blindsided.

    I get the impression that there's a level of frustration among some at newsgathering level at not being able to tell these stories coherently. While there's a lot of editorial noise made about ordinary people being able to "submit" their ideas for a risen Chch, the emerging reality is of a theme park for pettifogging bureaucrats.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    And telling that story requires crossing swords with major sources for future stories who are not bound by conventional accountabilities. The power balance has been quite deliberately tilted away from the public and the media.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16470 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Sacha,

    And telling that story requires crossing swords with major sources for future stories who are not bound by conventional accountabilities. The power balance has been quite deliberately tilted away from the public and the media.

    Sounds like martial law, but with money instead of guns.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4154 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Try and get CERA to say an area is safe. They won't. They will allow access if there is enough pressure brought to bear. The Casino for example is open and still threatened by two towers - the Copthorne & The Establishment.
    If you find out how much money the casino is making vs another business then you can calculate the value CERA places on life.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1144 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Just thinking,

    A little civil disobedience has been known to bring results.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3370 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    A little civil disobedience has been known to bring results.

    Further to that...

    How about a tent city or soupkitchen outside Treasury HQ?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4154 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Why aren’t the media all over stuff like that Portabello Antique shop?

    I don't think the media in Christchurch are up to it. My observation of old friends still in the game is that the Christchurch-resident media are as traumatised and as tired as the rest of us here. Eleven months near-enough and a bloody cold wet winter is catching up with everyone. Add to that that the Press -- and the Star -- have lost their inner-city bases; their news-gathering beats and connections have been blown to bits. No-one is hanging out in same places anymore; it's difficult to explain properly the level of day-to-day dislocation that has happened. Some days it really screws the head.

    We are relying on the likes of Public Address, John Campbell, the NZ Herald , the Dom, the Listener, to keep the magnifying glass on things like the Portobello incidents, the insurance dramas, and all the other overwhleming changes we're all experiencing. And they can give some much-needed big-picture overviews that we in the thick of it cannot always achieve.

    Omission of stories isn't down to neglect by the media here; there are just so many that, like the recovery of the city, the task is too huge for us to do alone.

    Anecdotally, we're knackered. (I went to a gathering of many ranters last night; by 9pm 90 per cent of the party was slipping out the door.)

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2569 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Hebe,

    O Hebe - I well understand that, if only because one of my best mates (a CHCH photojournalist) and one of my best ear-to-the-ground people in Otautahi have curled up & hibernated.
    I help some of my whanau with practical stuff but I sure as shit dont know what to do otherwise.
    I will say that that the insufficienct flailing-around by the NZAS has been an eye-opener. Money offered - ur? To whom? What? Ur? Fuckwits.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking, in reply to Islander,

    Islander, I agree.
    The shaking has just made way for the shivering. It's very much hold on and hunker down. Spring and summner might be ... um ... interesting.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1144 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Just thinking,

    I do hope so.
    Meantime - be well as can be-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Islander,

    Um, what can you do? My suggestion is offer to swap houses. You go stay at the swappee's house and feed their dog, cat and chooks. Let the swappee go to yours but not have to talk to a host. that to me would be bliss. Offers of respite that I have come with a price of nice that I just can't pay at the moment. So we stay put.

    The shaking has just made way for the shivering

    @just thinking: Beautifully put.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2569 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    So, no-one went to the Harbour Lights Festival? Neither did I, went hospital visiting instead. Cardiac ward all women of a certain age. Much lively discussion about the post-quake rebuild. Surprisingly unified opposition to Ian Athfield's involvement. Most original reason given: "He looks like he could be wearing women's underwear."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3370 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    "He looks like he could be wearing women's underwear."

    No wonder those women were in the cardiac ward when they have been thinking thinks like that.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2569 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Hebe,

    Thanks Hebe. As I'm dropping in there later today it'll be my pleasure to tell them so.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3370 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Hebe,

    We are relying on the likes of Public Address, John Campbell, the NZ Herald , the Dom, the Listener, to keep the magnifying glass on things

    Thought as much hebe so I forwarded that to John Campbell and Lianne Dalziel as well, in hope that she may speak to authoritys immediately.
    Survival stories I hear through friends and friends of friends,are that of survival of the fittest situations and conjured up thoughts of "Animal farm" because it seems to be heading toward innovative cunning plans to get into the red dead zone and retrieve possessions, of which I fully understand now, having read that piece about Portabello Antiques. I certainly am passing this info on as I move about.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5988 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Hebe,

    Regrettably, I dont have the kind of house I could swap with anyone...basically bookshelves, with absolutely minimal comforts, and in a remote area-

    but maybe someone else would take the idea up?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • krustacean, in reply to David Haywood,

    Thanks David for the headsup - it was verbal however I am working on getting it in writing.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2011 • 4 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    More victims of the rush to demolition…
    Watching Brownlee on the TV the other night, I noticed he was standing in front of a partially destroyed multi-storey building somewhere, and revealed was some poor firm's file room, shelves of folders, which were all about to be pulled into the rubble – how many medical records, legal records like wills, etc, client contacts, contracts, and histories have been irrevocably lost – the flow-on effect of that is huge and will impact for years to come… and I’m sure many of them could have been retrieved with a little less haste, what happened to the Government’s duty of care?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4660 posts Report Reply

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