Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: How much speech does it take?

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  • merc,

    New Zealand prohibits hate speech under the Human Rights Act 1993. Section 61 (Racial Disharmony) makes it unlawful to publish or distribute "threatening, abusive, or insulting...matter or words likely to excite hostility against or bring into contempt any group of persons...on the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national or ethnic origins of that group of persons." Section 131 (Inciting Racial Disharmony) lists offences for which "racial disharmony" creates liability.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    In that case, what is it suggesting? If the author is simply setting out a moral code that he personally subscribes to, it isn't going to change the attitude of others who don't adhere to his code.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4421 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to merc,

    The Internet isn't in New Zealand (or anywhere else). Are you suggesting that that law should be enforced by firewalling off overseas sites that contain such material? (Given that a huge chunk of such content is in a country which has a constitutional aversion to any such censorship).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4421 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    In that case, what is it suggesting? If the author is simply setting out a moral code that he personally subscribes to, it isn't going to change the attitude of others who don't adhere to his code.

    It's a call for action, and the implication that in the absence of action there is no alternative but enforcement is one that you supplied and I doubt very much that the author of the post shares. He is suggesting that bloggers, webmasters, organisations need to take responsibility. I'd add readers, too - we seriously need to stop accepting excuses, and making a point of not linking to sites that allow for their comments section to become as vile as Kiwiblog's would help.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    What Gio said.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    So if there isn't action (why would there be? Farrar loves his bigoted fascist commentators. They're the core of NACTs voting base, after all) and there isn't governmental enforcement, what other paths are you suggesting?

    I doubt most of Kiwibleurghs readers get there by clicking through from Public Address.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4421 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I doubt most of Kiwibleurghs readers get there by clicking through from Public Address.

    No, but links on here will certainly raise its ranking in Google. But I don't think it's really worth worrying about that much. If you're concerned, it's better to signpost your links with comments. That said, if there's genuine hate speech there, I'd agree with Gio and leave it be.

    The main thing that puts me off Kiwiblog is not what they say about topics, but rather the highly personally threatening tone the writers take towards commentary they disagree with. It doesn't frighten me, I doubt any of them are anything more than blowhards, but it makes it impossible to have a sensible discussion.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8316 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to BenWilson,

    No, but links on here will certainly raise its ranking in Google

    I doubt it. Russell would have established a "nofollow" regime in the links coming from this site I presume?

    So if there isn't action (why would there be? Farrar loves his bigoted fascist commentators. They're the core of NACTs voting base, after all) and there isn't governmental enforcement, what other paths are you suggesting?

    I'm not sure why you insist that I or anybody else "suggest other paths". Is it permissible to say that you think that something is wrong even if you don't actually have a way of stopping it from happening? I'm quite partial to communities policing themselves, with as little recourse as possible to censorship or other authoritarian fiat. After all, what it takes is simply for more people to stop tolerating the behaviour in question. If the only people left reading Kiwiblog and contributing to Kiwiblog were those who actually agreed with the sentiments expressed by its more loathsome commentators, the site would be a lot lower in the national blog statistics and Farrar would be considered the blog equivalent a shock jock. But they aren't and he isn't.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I doubt it. Russell would have established a "nofollow" regime in the links coming from this site I presume?

    I don't see it anywhere in the html source generated.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8316 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to BenWilson,

    I don't see it anywhere in the html source generated.

    (Makes mental note to do more spamming on PAS.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I doubt it. Russell would have established a “nofollow” regime in the links coming from this site I presume?

    No, I haven't. Most outbound links here tend to be to worthwhile sources. You wouldn't want to deprive them of the PA juice.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18711 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    (Makes mental note to do more spamming on PAS.)

    I'd hate to see your account blocked :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8316 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    the site would be a lot lower in the national blog statistics

    How many people *actually* read Kiwiblog, or any blog, on a regular basis. Tens of thousands? (I couldn't find a number. I found that he's #63000 in the world, but no idea what that means as actual regular readers.

    I'd say it was on a par with Wishart's magazine.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4421 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to BenWilson,

    I'd hate to see your account blocked :-)

    My blog will suddenly become your most trusted source for over-the-counter Viagra and Cialis. No-one will even notice.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Russell Brown,

    No, I haven't. Most outbound links here tend to be to worthwhile sources.

    They do. But I wonder if a clever tech could issue a warning note on certain site links saying:

    "You are entering a site whose head doesn't know what it's arseholes are doing" or some such, to follow the theme of Gio's link.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    How many people *actually* read Kiwiblog

    Somewhere in between the over two hundred thousand visits he registered in July and the thirteen hundred odd subscribers he has on Google Reader. Likely a lot closer to the second number than the first, but still, it's no peanuts.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to recordari,

    issue a warning note on certain site links

    Often do so manually

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16491 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    So, a couple of thousand? That would match the first figure, on a basis of his readers averaging three visits a day.

    That's less than the Oamaru Mail. Or the Upper Hutt Leader. Or Salient.

    I suspect a lot of the reason he gets attention is that he's one of NACT's conduits, and the MSM know that.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4421 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Sacha,

    Often do so manually

    That's true too, and it works for the most part. Except when you get that 'it can't be that bad' bravado, and it invariably is. Or worse.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    So, a couple of thousand? That would match the first figure, on a basis of his readers averaging three visits a day.

    I suspect more than that, but I honestly don't know. Perhaps Russell has some idea.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to recordari,

    “You are entering a site whose head doesn’t know what it’s arseholes are doing”

    NSFTB
    (Not Safe For Thinking Bipeds)

    or

    Cave art emptier
    (Neanderthal concepts ahead)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4681 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    My blog will suddenly become your most trusted source for over-the-counter Viagra and Cialis. No-one will even notice.

    I'd notice if you started doing the obvious thing and putting ads on your site. I'm quite curious what Google would pick for ads for there. Have you tried it?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8316 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to BenWilson,

    I’m quite curious what Google would pick for ads for there. Have you tried it?

    I have not, but occasionally I switch off Adblock Plus on gmail to see what adsense selects for the comments – and it’s mostly stuff to do with memory systems, with the odd book and gadget or holiday package.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Classic. I was thinking last night about what would be the kind of things your readers would buy and mostly drew a blank. Holiday packages sounds like the closest to a useful advert - high margin, and as an ex-pat you might have readers that are back home thinking of coming here (when you write about NZ) or here and thinking about going home (when you write about the old country). Memory systems could be a rich vein of misdirected people, who realize that's not what your site is about, but hey, that ad in the corner might be. Books and gadgets strike me as the kind of thing your readers would already know how to find on the net.

    I don't know how Adsense picks the kind of ads. If it's left on, does it home in on what people are clicking?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8316 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Do you plan to keep saying that until it becomes magically true?

    There are a couple of significant neo-cons who were involved with both the Reagan administration, who also had some involvement with Bush Snr and Jnr, who were in the depths of the New Left some 20 years before. Their names escape me, but you wouldn't have called them Marxists - certainly not in the narrow sense of the word. Most of the hard core socialists in the American New Left were Leninists or Maoists, the names and exact details of these two guys escape me at present.

    Not particularly surprising, the New Left had a significant libertarian component to it, and many of its advocates were breaking down traditional left-right linear perspectives and finding themselves closer to New Right activists in most things that they were concerned about than moderates.

    [been away from PAS for a couple of weeks - catching up]

    Since Nov 2006 • 6162 posts Report Reply

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