Just saw on?

Firstly, if people were burning Porirua and looting the shops, I'd be equally quick to condemn. These are disgusting acts, by people with no consideration for others. But it is worth asking how such people might?

There was poor?

There's a widespread myth that law and order is preserved by police, politicians and other forces of authority. Not true. Never has been. If we all decide to go out and chuck a dustbin through Argos's window and help ourselves, it would?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXcI-NL3Tro

The BBC said the police were assembling in Clapham Common North, but none had riot gear. Poor bastards.

Illuminating:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html

Not so much the actual opinion piece but the comments section is the thing that unintentionally underlines how dysfunctional and bitterly divided British society now is.

The mob may?

I'm beginning to think along the same lines. They don't even have pension funds to lose!

And this is why poor people can?t have nice things, right? Really, Tom, not meant as a poke at you but I?m fucked off at the unpleasant ?the natives are revolting!?

From the same Nina Power story in the Guardian quoted above:

"...When you look at the figures for deaths in police custody (at least 333 since 1998 and not a single conviction of any police officer for?

One:
The majority were from natural causes, with nearly three-quarters relating to drug or alcohol abuse.
Two:
Those who died in custody were mostly white (75%), male (90%) and aged between 25 and 44.

Not really that?

The home secretary, Theresa May, has dismissed fears that deep spending cuts could undermine the ability of the police to tackle possible civil unrest, and insisted the British did not respond to austerity by rioting on the streets.

I have a?

I've missed a couple of riots in London by strolling off at the end of a protest march for a pint ten minutes before everything kicked off.

The weirdest thing was being a couple of streets away?

Sadly true. This is starting to become like L.A. 92, but with far less of the racial element. I think what everyone agrees on is that the relevant issues can no longer be?

And as I?ve said, the last time I was in Melbourne there were a lot of Police on the streets of the CBD after the AFL Grand Final. But that presence?

But the point that this is a creation of social circumstances is an important one. In functioning societies, this sort of widespread rioting?

It does seem reasonable to assume that disgraceful behavior at the Met has undermined faith in the police — although I'm not sure #hackgate is uppermost in the minds of the?

Yes, in fact the races involved seem to be local, which makes it much more like Godwin times. Coupled with a massive double dip recession (which in the old days was called?

I suspect most of those involved aren't considering anything beyond the enormous rush. And the possibility of getting some new trainers.

As well as missing a?

Snap ...

Quite – and, honestly, perhaps I should take my own advice and STFU but I'm?

In my personal experience there are "Bad Apples" in every Police Force.
British Police, in general seem to have less of those and, again, in general, tend to consider themselves part?

We could go with "people suck, especially rioters", if it makes you feel better?

You know what, I'm not going to feel anything but dread until I hear from half a dozen friends that they (and their families) are safe.

By throwing up in their own throat in an unmonitored cell and suffocating on it.

Does that answer your question?

Me too -?

I've had policemen describe exactly the same thing to me.

How exactly does one die in custody from alcohol/drug abuse?

Presumably from stuff taken just before being apprehended, and no one checking?

The deaths in custody thing reminds me of Australia, where hundreds of Aborigine men have died and not a single conviction has been found. What's the situation like in?

By a lack of care by the custodians. Ie you are locked up without your present condition not being noted and monitored. So bad, but obviously a regualr occurence.

These riots seem so similar to ones started in Brixton so?

Of course. Adrenaline is nature's fight-or-flight wonder drug. I've not been in a riot, but have experienced being punch-drunk. It's extremely powerful, and it's no wonder that soldiers miss it when they're taken off?

West Midlands Police have confirmed that a police station in Holyhead Road in Handsworth, is on fire. #birminghamriots

Damn.

ETA, Leeds.
ETA2: Manchester.

Jean, my friend Heather is currently joking, about getting a bunch of friends together and heading to Knightsbridge to see if the looters make it as far as Harrod's.

Summer of Discontent!

First! Copyright!

But as usual with Londoners, we're all planning our travel routes to avoid the burnt out cars and looted shops..."Hmmm, 276 will be diverted but I bet the?

It's called rushing or zerging or blitzing. Works well against a?

Alcohol was an issue, but the main cause was?

I reckon that's entirely post-facto. Militant anarchists might feel good about this, but there's little to suggest that there's been anything that follows their methods. No black-bloc?

Or, to put it another way, by the police failing in their duty of care towards those in their custody. It is largely a failure of police attitudes, of them not giving a shit.

Yes... Well...
They are known for their top heavy bureaucratic structure... aren't they.

I did intend to imply that in my response, yes. But I also wasn't too impressed?

Agreed, but also it's not out of line with what Russell was suggesting.?

?????

Fair enough, sorta. I recall the local anarchists always being very keen to?

Anarchism <> chaos. Just because people oppose the state, coercion, and pretensions of "authority" doesn't mean they can't get together voluntarily to work towards their collective ends.

Yes, but they would generally put themselves in a situation (that someone else had organised) where they thought they?

Yes. Our local anarchist crew in Elephant & Castle published a great squatters' newsletter. A friend of mine was part of a group in Islington?

Perhaps some music will calm me down...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCkNu9OxThc

Maybe not...

For now. How long before people discover that they?

And even if I didn't, I find something a little distasteful?

I gather his office decided that not returning from Tuscany would be the better choice, to avoid making the earlier rioting look more important than it was. Looks like an unfortunate call now. Ditto for Boris Johnson — it's Ken Livingstone?

Seeing evidence that ATMs are being targeted.

Watching?

Just out of interest, how does Blackberry messaging work? Is it easy?

Some passers-by help a disorientated and bleeding kid — and then mug him.

Fuck.

The other part?

Trying very hard not to comment on the reasons for the violence due to a very real possibility I will lose my?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Messenger

Vaugely surprised that it's as popular as it seems to be in the UK. Hardly anyone in NZ seems to be using a blackberry now that smartphones are widely available.

I'd say that's probably a very good example for Ben's zerging. The 400 (or cells/portions thereof) were able to effectively mass portions of the 70,000 when required. If?

Is that what's known as the Lumpenproletariat?

I think there's certainly a conversation to be had about that. It would be ironic if the communitarian philosophy advanced by Tony Blair — which underpins those social control initiatives — turned out?

That's exactly how zerging works in multiplayer online games. You make the assumption that about one in 15 people will listen to you, but moving decisively?

NZ missed the Blackberry buzz (in part) because we were early adopters of cheap SMS. Text messaging took a lot?

Try typing something in the comment box before doing the file upload. Crazy, I know.

That's what happens when you don't pay attention to what goes on?

Is that what's?

What, because they don't aspire to you reckon?

A writer friend, now, aue, long dead, once tried to set up a support system for Aborigine men taken into custody – because, she said, they?

Possibly. But also, in the UK (and most other countries) the underclass is urban. In NZ, a lot of the poorest people live out in the country. A lot of the central NI settlements are probably more disadvantaged than Hackney, but we don?t see them,?

No, they're just being realistic about their chances of ever achieving it by the conventional route.

http://www.sunsetbar.co.uk/userimages/RatRace.jpg

Not sure if the word cheap can placed alongside SMS in NZ, nor has it ever been so. I was shocked when I flew into Asia in the late 90s and the various nations were?

Thank you for the clarification. [Man, I hope that didn't sound sarcastic. Wasn't mean to.]

apropos, Maori deaths in custody -uncommon, like other groups' deaths in custody here.

There are still plenty of urban poor in New Zealand, unfortunately. And the shared characteristics stretch across borders: first or second generation immigrants/refugees with?

There are others that would put other clarifications as to why the poor can?t possibly climb out of their class recession: I?ve certainly been inspired by reading this book: http://hot-topic.co.nz/the-great-disruption/

And also this essay: http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2009/03/08/203784/ponzi-scheme-madoff-friedman-natural-capital-renewable-resources/

I'm being a bit of a sandwich board for this?

So what was the difference to the?

'K, try three.

Does anyone else find this photo...odd?

ETA: Oh, FFS.

Here, we have functional families most of the time, even when some young person?

This post, from 2008 seems to indicate that it wasn't until 2007 that AT&T hiked their costs (with the end of Cingular) to those levels,?

the idea that you needed to pay when you were sent a txt was a massive barrier

They still charge to receive an overseas text – something I discovered when I used my NZ phone to text Americans last December. Pffffft. Sorry rellies.

That would be nice, but after listening to the chap on the radio news who said "It took ten years to build what they smashed in ten minutes" I can't think too harshly of anyone?

Why the poor can?t possibly climb out of their class recession?

"You're in a rut you gotta get out of, out of it."

Here?s a list of shops that appeared to have been broken into or were heavily damaged with smashed glass:

? Betfred
? Pawnbroker
? Independent sports shop
? Argos
? Independent phone shop
? O2
? Carphone Warehouse
? Phones4U
? Cash Converters
? Foot Locker?

What are several thousand looters, a hundred odd fires and a couple of hundred small businesses going to the wall. In?

I think the government that chose [[http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/15/theresa-may-cut-police-budget-without-violent-unrest|Theresa "the British public don't simply resort to violent unrest in the face?

How to deal with the fluid nature of the rioters ? send all the conservative liberal coalition into London on bicycles, arm them with smart phones and Ipads to locate the rioters, report their movements to the police and then have them disburse?

Or was?

I am assuming here that all members fo the conservative liberal coalition have the coordination?

West Croydon however, according to colleagues who use that station, looks?

The looting I can understand – opportunistic selfishness, for those who don't give a fuck. It's the destruction, the random arson that upsets me most.

There are plenty of disaffected chavs everywhere after all and plenty of mobile phone shops/computer shops/off-licences/snazzy sneaker vendors too – them's good looting.

All I can personally really do is call my London friends tomorrow to make sure that they are OK. That and make sure?

guy who bought the company. inventor still going, thankfully

or it will fix us

No irony required models of motivated behaviour suggest that external regulation always has unwanted consequences.

Meanwhile in case this one got missed....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41SkP55Xyjk

I think there has been a great deal of reporting, but yeah: I liked the simple descriptive accounts in the London Review of Books blogs?

The truth is that riots almost always hurt poor, working class people. There's no riot that embodies a pure struggle for justice, that is not also partly a self-inflicted wound. There is no riot without looting, without anti-social behaviour, without a mixture of bad motives and bad politics.?

And Ken Wyatt was elected to the WA parliament in the last election.

I also came across this list of Aboriginal people in politics and public service.

More would be better though.

It is about them, this is the instant gratification generation that we appear to have reaped. Yep there's other factors, but what I'm seeing is sheer "Fuck it no one can stop us".

They're obviously not sticking it to?

That Theresa May story was cropping up as one of the 'most read' on the Guardian website yesterday....

I?

He looked desperate at that stand-up in Clapham, didn't he?

Footage here

Well done to those people. Calmly and clearly telling him that he'd failed.

Meh... Part of me says that being a scratching post is just part of Johnson's job; and without some trussed up looters to kick the shit out of, he's the best option on offer. But, honestly, if?

ETA: Flatuous. That's a typo to keep – flatulence + fatuous = NZ Herald!

Esther Addley's report from Hackey for The Guardian is fascinating. It appears that even people who stood on their front steps defending their homes until 2am have a pretty nuanced view of the rights and?

It seems that insurance should cover a good deal of it, but it's?

Duh. And I find good analysis better than bad reporting, so I guess we're even? But I think it's pretty obvious that we need the good kind of both.

Yeah, true. But that Addley story was so good because it actually conveyed what the people in those neighbourhoods had to?

Quite ? and it?s good reporting that make a solid foundation for analysis that isn?t just pure wank or the author?s pet political barrow being taken out for a Sunday drive.

It seems that insurance?

Martin Mills' Beggar's Group?

+1

Thanks everybody for your comments and links. Once again, when I don't understand what's going on, I come to Public Address and things begin to make sense!

And they're the very people who didn't have "product" go up in flames, but their passion and commitment. Even if you're not a big fan of the music, you've got to respect people who do?

Proving once again that people can be eloquent and lucid in stressful circumstances – it's just that shoving a microphone in their faces?

(I've always been a bit concerned about my books, which are probably not insurable at full replacement cost, or indeed replaceable).

Thought about it while I was riding my bike, and feel that I should say I've appreciated informed analysis.?

Count the Tory columnists invoking "society". Remember Thatcher declaring there was "no such thing". Contemplate.

I'd take issue with some of the examples in the Indie article: for a population that was/is supposedly 'not an aggressive or violent people', and 'not naturally good at fighting', it strikes me as?

Is it ever?

Whatevs. I saw it more as a warning (perhaps even – if you wanted to go there – a call for the country to seriously right its moral compass, with haste), rather than an actual unfair representation of reality. See title.

Oh, and before and since. The British are an unruly people :-)

Anyway, The Guardian is quoting a report saying the victim in the mugging video is a 20 year-old Malaysian student who was heading?

In my experience, they're
a)not insurable at replacement value. I was told most of my books could be insured
for their *secondhand* value – but I'd have to get?

That?s crappy.

have you heard the wonderful story of how some Nobel prize winners in Denmark dissolved their medals in strong acid during WWII to hide them from the invading Germans? After the war the gold was recovered and the Nobel Institute re-forged the?

I read an essay written not long after Hurricane Katrina?

This could be the death blow for many smaller indies who simply don't have the cashflow or reserves to cover it. Insurance may or may not cover it, but that's not really the point as?

Oh, and before and since.

Yes. But Victorian Britain was specifically mentioned in the article (and almost inevitably crops up in these sort of analyses when an example is needed).

It does make me wonder?

I don?t think they?ve ever had this rep in NZ. Teachers and coders wear them to work, and so on.

Maybe it?s because we don?t have much CCTV, and thus not the need to hide from the cameras, so keeping your head?