Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Complaint and culture

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  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Danyl, my Dad was about 23 when his first child was born, and 54 when the youngest was born. (1940-1970 in case you're wondering, were his years of childbearing). Because of his youthful spirit and joie de vivre, it was never a problem.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • John Armstrong, in reply to Sacha,

    We owe all those involved in the Cartwright Inquiry and subsequent establishment of the Health and Disability Commission and its code of patient rights a big debt of gratitude on that front.

    As part of an ongoing research project I have spoken to a number of doctors in the last four or five years, and have been informed on more than one occasion that the current lack of useful data on childbirth mortality and morbidity is - at least partially -attributable to the Cartwright Inquiry. Prior to the Inquiry there _was_ a functioning data collection system in place, but, according to these doctors, the system collapsed when their colleagues no longer felt safe to disclose information about events that may have been avoided given different approaches. I have not got the name of the earlier system to hand but could probably find it if anyone is interested.

    I should stress that I am not claiming this scenario as truth, but thought that it was relevant to earlier discussions about power relations in this particular field of practice.

    I'll also note that hovering about PA for years has taught me that the old builders' adage of 'measure twice and cut once' is applicable in conversation too, particularly when it involves measuring my preconceptions against the experiences of others.

    Hamilton • Since Nov 2007 • 132 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to John Armstrong,

    I should stress that I am not claiming this scenario as truth, but thought that it was relevant to earlier discussions about power relations in this particular field of practice.

    Interesting, thanks.

    according to these doctors, the system collapsed when their colleagues no longer felt safe to disclose information about events that may have been avoided given different approaches

    It's usually a matter of who controls the monitoring system. Current quality systems for sentinel events and suchlike are predicated on a no-fault approach as is most of what HDC does. Resistance to being potentially held accountable is a common thread in the story though, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16754 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Danielle,

    When you've washed my brain, will you be a good gel and iron it as well? Perhaps even hang it up. Ta.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Emma Hart,

    It wasn’t all bad, to be fair, B. The medical concept of hysteria did lead to the invention of the vibrator.

    It always surprises me how adroitly avoided this piece of medical history tends to be, considering...well, everything.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2093 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Which I’m kind of surprised by, because N&S has done a lot of medical/social issues reportage over its twenty five year history – and has actually done a pretty good job over the years of avoiding medico-disaster porn that’s too often the level health journalism exists at.

    It did appear that quite a number of the critics had skipped the "reading the article" part.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18961 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Danielle,

    Jackie, Lilith, I’m afraid you have been assimilated by the PAS hivemind.

    I know, I know, I was just thinking that as I hit "post". But I'm happy in my delusions. ;-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3466 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Danielle,

    PAS hivemind

    I tend to think that people who accuse PAS of this haven't read the tagline, right at the top of the page. It's a community; of course members have some things in common, be it views and opinions or just an idea of the "right" way to disagree. If it didn't have that, it wouldn't be a community.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 801 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Danyl, my Dad was about 23 when his first child was born, and 54 when the youngest was born. (1940-1970 in case you're wondering, were his years of childbearing). Because of his youthful spirit and joie de vivre, it was never a problem.

    Youthful spirits and joie de vivre? Great - but how does that help me?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Fooman, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Youthful spirits and joie de vivre? Great – but how does that help me?

    It helps you realise that a change in attitude may help...

    You're welcome.

    FM

    Lower Hutt • Since Dec 2009 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    There are two separate issues at hand here, in either case.

    The first is the degree to which breastmilk confers benefits to a child (if any).

    The second is the degree to which these benefits (if they occur) obligate the mother to provide these, (and importantly, other parties to facilitate this)

    In the case of childbirth, the first is the degree to which clinical/non-clinical settings and types of supervision confer benefits to the child and mother.

    The second is the degree to which this obligates the mother and other parties to facilitate these.

    Stated for the sake of clarity. It may be that everyone is already working on these assumptions implicitly (and it may be that the argument has spelled these out clearly already, in which case please ignore), but I think it's worth making them explicit.

    There are reasonable arguments for all these positions, but if they appear to be conflated (whether they are or not), there is going to be a degree of frustration - either side appears to feel that they are being asked to defend or attack imaginary positions.

    I'm not going to comment on the article, because I read it in a Borders several weeks ago. My memory is vague.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Youthful spirits and joie de vivre? Great - but how does that help me?

    In your case, I'd substitute distilled spirits and a Playstation, but YMMV...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2153 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to James Butler,

    PAS hivemind

    I tend to think that people who accuse PAS of this haven't read the tagline, right at the top of the page.

    1)
    I've looked at hives from both sides now,
    From up and down, and still somehow,
    It's hive illusions I recall,
    I really don't know hives, at all.

    2)
    I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
    oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
    .

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to recordari,

    You're an animal, Jack. Probably a Sky Pilot in disguise.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2153 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to George Darroch,

    It is worth clarifying the issues, however, I think that at least in regards to breastfeeding there are a couple more. For example: if a mother is obliged to provide the breastfeeding benefits is it appropriate for other parties to coerce or compel her to? Are there other factors (eg mother's wellbeing) that may outweigh the baby's interest in receiving the breastfeeding benefits? It looks to me that these are key issues in the ongoing controversy.

    I have birthed and breastfed two children with negligible problems, so I've been fortunate enough not to have seen the dark side of the maternity and breastfeeding systems. However, from what I've heard from other mothers and in blog discussions like these it seems to me that in New Zealand the pro-breastfeeding/anti-formula position is more aggressive than it needs to be. At least one friend was made to feel like a terrible mother by her plunket nurse because she couldn't satisfy her baby's milk needs.

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to nzlemming,

    You're an animal, Jack. Probably a Sky Pilot in disguise.

    Thanks. I think.

    Sky Pilot? That would be my grandfather. True story. And Father Mulcahy is one of my fancy dress options.

    I think I should stop there.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to Russell Brown,

    North & South people are reeling from the venom expressed in the Facebook discussion of their story.

    Without having seen the FB page, it's hardly unexpected. Arguments on the internet come in all sorts of varieties, but those between women (with the odd unwary man jumping in) over how to bear, feed and parent their children are up there amongst the longest standing and highest temperature. It's a subject where a lot of people feel entitled to tell others what to do, for the good of the children of course. See also: vaccination.

    Interestingly, my experience in RL among other newish parents is that we're all so sensitised to the furore, that we're all very very circumspect about not criticising when other people do things differently.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 814 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to recordari,

    Father Mulcahy is one of my fancy dress options

    I can so picture that, my son.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16754 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen,

    The thing I remember is that there was no way of telling which of our fellow first-time parents were going to strike problems with breast feeding. But it was much easier to predict who was going to persevere and who wasn't. Some of them certainly appeared to place a premium on "mother's well-being" in every other aspect of their lives, and some had partners who put an even greater premium on "father's well-being". (If you think I'm having a go at you unfairly, I'm not. I was thinking of someone you don't know...).

    My partner initially found it difficult, tiring and often excruciating, but she'd made her mind up that breast is best (and she can be a little... bloody-minded). My role as a supportive partner was to somehow get across the message that everyone including the baby would be completely OK with formula as an alternative without ever actually suggesting it, and while simultaneously doing everything possible to make breast feeding work without doing so much that it took on way too much significance. Just the usual relationship high-wire act then. I know other guys whose version of being supportive was to apply their rational male problem-solving skills: "this hurts and causes stress, we'll switch to plan B. Fixed".

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 204 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I retweeted this earlier today, but never thought to put it here. A fertility clinic ad (SWF), the first in Australia to show woman giving birth

    (And the context). Via Lew Stoddart.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to B Jones,

    Interestingly, my experience in RL among other newish parents is that we're all so sensitised to the furore, that we're all very very circumspect about not criticising when other people do things differently.

    I've noticed this too. My coffee group folks and other friends varied widely in breastmilk/formula feeding patterns, for example, and I can't really think of one moment of out-of-turn public judgeypantsness. It's in the tubes where it really all goes... down the tubes.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3661 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to recordari,

    Sky Pilot? That would be my grandfather. True story. And Father Mulcahy is one of my fancy dress options.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2153 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to nzlemming,

    Thanks, although I found it here earlier, with facts, no less!

    The single was split into 2 parts to fit on the 45. You had to flip the record to hear the whole song.

    That would show... dedication?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Well, you were saying that you were terrified you'd be in your 50's by the time your child is a teenager. My point was that you could be a lot older, and it would still be okay. Excuse I for attempting reassurance!

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to recordari,

    Yup. The YouTube did that and merged the parts. I knew it from the album, so I never realised that.

    I love the note that HMG sent " an angry letter " to Burdon for including pipe music! Talk about over-reaching!

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2153 posts Report Reply

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