Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: LATE OCTOBER: Life in the Margins: Otherness in New Zealand

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Also, that generally no-one deliberately chooses to be the outsider.

    But people do sometimes choose to define themselves on the margin, or outside the mainstream, and that's fine.

    In the past decade, I've often thought that I feel particularly comfortable in the company of mature gay men and women because I relate to their sense of otherness. And that even though I'm now certainly part of some establishment or other, I still value my own sense of otherness.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17941 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich Lock,

    no-one deliberately chooses to be the outsider

    Au contraire. Most teens build an identity around both that and belonging. Some even make a career of it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15717 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Well, arguably some people choose to define themselves on the margins or outside the mainstream because that's where they feel comfortable (and they don't feel comfortable in the mainstream). They didn't choose to be a person that feel suncomfortable in the mainstream.

    They're going with the flow rather than trying to make themselves be something they're not.

    To use an example (and I may be getting myself in over my head with this), you don't choose to be gay, any more than you choose to be straight. But how you deal with being placed in a position that is still outside the mainstream, how you define and accept yourself (or not), is your choice.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I've updated the original post with the lineup for Christoph's performance. And that really is some lineup ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17941 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich Lock,

    how you define and accept yourself (or not), is your choice

    and some people choose to be 'the outsider'.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15717 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I’m beginning to think we all both at a margin and a center – it all depends on where you’re standing, and how self-aware you are that “normal” is a minefield.

    Quantum theory of identity?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to 3410,

    Quantum theory of identity?

    You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8015 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Sacha,

    some people choose to be 'the outsider'.

    Yes, but do they start off on the inside and then make a deliberate decision to move to the outside, or are they drawn to the outside as a consequence of who they are?

    nature/nurture, free will, etc, and like I say, I'm getting in over my head.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    and there's a cat involved somewhere (or is there?)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15717 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich Lock,

    do they start off on the inside and then make a deliberate decision to move to the outside, or are they drawn to the outside as a consequence of who they are?

    Not everyone starts on the inside (though it certainly helps resource choices). There are other paths too, all interesting.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15717 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Sacha,

    Not everyone starts on the inside

    Yes, good point.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew E, in reply to BenWilson,

    Quantum theory of identity?

    You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.

    And observing the matter may alter its/your state?

    174.77 x 41.28 • Since Sep 2008 • 196 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Andrew E,

    And observing the matter may alter its/your state?

    Yes, the waveform of you identity collapses on observation. Certainly I've felt such a crushing effect from people's observations on my identity. I find myself wishing for the dead cat bounce.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8015 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to BenWilson,

    Certainly I've felt such a crushing effect from people's observations on my identity.

    Said effect can usually be triggered by using the phrase 'it's not you, it's me'. At which point, an abundance of pithy observations on one's identity are generated by the adressee....

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    I recieved my tickets today - I have to say if you have to pop your Late at the Museum cherry, this is the one to do it with,

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3112 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Sorry Jackie, meant as a reply to Ben.

    You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.

    ""Personal density," Kurt Mondaugen in his Peenemünde office not too many steps away from here, enunciating the Law which will one day bear his name, "is directly proportional to temporal bandwidth."

    "Temporal bandwidth," is the width of your present, your now. It is the familiar "∆ t" considered as a dependent variable. The more you dwell in the past and in the future, the thicker your bandwidth, the more solid your persona. But the narrower your sense of Now, the more tenuous you are."

    Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3291 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I'm surprised nobody's mentioned being 'well adjusted' yet. Giovanni deconstructs an ideal that disempowers. (It's typically interesting, as is the response it's stirred).

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2078 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to George Darroch,

    Oh to be a 'well adjusted' gentleman of leisure who's been over there discussing it all day. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15717 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to George Darroch,

    Giovanni deconstructs an ideal that disempowers.

    I couldn't decide if it was disempowering. Nor could I actually be sure Gio was deconstructing it. Nor even if he intended to. But it's interesting, as you say.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8015 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    I recieved my tickets today – I have to say if you have to pop your Late at the Museum cherry, this is the one to do it with,

    There's quite a lot of work to do yet, but we had a good meeting at the museum today and I'm hoping it will be something people haven't seen or heard before. This Is Where We Came From is certainly going to be more than just a drag show.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17941 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Rich Lock,

    And some of us feel eternally on the outside. I have always had a sense of otherness - it's not always a bad thing, and you can have a level of comfortable otherness, to be sure. But then there is the general sense of never getting it, and never understanding why you don't quite fit in. I've come to see it as an okay space to be in, but only sometimes. It's why, and people are disbelieving when I say this, I find social interaction with "new" people really difficult. I've learned to cover up my shyness and otherness really well, apparently.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3112 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    But then there is the general sense of never getting it, and never understanding why you don't quite fit in.

    I've learned to cover up my shyness and otherness really well, apparently.

    Yeah, if we're lucky we learn and refine strategies and coping techniques as we get older. I'd argue that that is (a small) part of learning to define and accept one's self as the outsider.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Interesting article here that has some bearing on this discussion.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2292 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Just a late notice on ordering tickets through the Museum Website. During the registering process I couldn’t help but laugh when I unveiled the list of titles.

    Can I please choose ‘Capt & Mrs?’ Can I? Or even better ‘WOSA’ or ‘Wing Commander’. What is a WOSA, anyway? That’s certainly the most comprehensive list of titles I’ve ever seen. I hope we don’t lower the tone of the place too much.

    ETA: WOSA = Warrant Officers, Specialists and Airmen.

    ETA2: OMG, they even have a Suffix list!

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to recordari,

    Can I please choose ‘Capt & Mrs?’ Can I? Or even better ‘WOSA’ or ‘Wing Commander’. What is a WOSA, anyway? That’s certainly the most comprehensive list of titles I’ve ever seen. I hope we don’t lower the tone of the place too much.

    That's fabulous.

    And, I can only assume, something to do with it being a War Memorial Museum.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17941 posts Report Reply

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