Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Last Words

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  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Hebe,

    Nonsense. My way or the highway huh?

    Not at all, if you want your vote to be a protest vote against National not Labour. I would vote for a stinking pile of poo if it would get rid of National, they are Cuthullull's little helpers.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4869 posts Report Reply

  • thegirlstefan, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    yup same for me:

    Greens for party
    Annette King (I live in Rongotai)
    MMP
    STV (2nd choice)

    It'll be interesting to see the data behind the upsurge in early votes, and also if the Green-initiated campaign to engage eligible voters who aren't enrolled works out

    Aotearoa • Since Oct 2011 • 42 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Isaac Freeman,

    +1 Isaac-
    what also bothers me about Labour Party organisation, is the general misogyny and overt racism found in (2) local organisations. Seems we going to have wait until
    the dinosaurs die off before other people can contribute (and I'm in my mid-60s for goodness' sake!)

    So, a Green party vote from me - first time I've ever done that-(other family have done so in the past.)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to steven crawford,

    how do you vote against a political party? I would like to vote against National if I may.

    Vote Labour, vote early and vote often...
    Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour and/or Greens.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4869 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National ...

    You're either for us, or against us ...

    That's not the way MMP works.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 420 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Your little protest could mean we get National again. And your argument? that they didn’t do what you wanted whilst in opposition.

    Correct. If a party does not represent me, then they do not earn, let alone own my vote.

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National and these people are dangerous.

    Does “You’re either with us or against us” ring any bells? That not-so-latent authoritarianism and sense of entitlement can exist anywhere, painted red or blue.

    I would vote for a stinking pile of poo

    Be careful what you wish for.

    In any case, your attempt at blackmail makes sense only if Labour is the only opposition party under a FPP system, which is not the case.

    Brent: Snap.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 980 posts Report Reply

  • tussock, in reply to steven crawford,

    I would like to vote against National if I may.

    Technically, any vote for a party that crosses the threshold or wins an electorate other than them is a vote against National. They want 61+ MPs, and every other list MP elected before their 61st works against them.

    Edit: Oh, and Green, the local Sue Coutts so she gets the refund (very safe National seat), Keep MMP, and STV.

    Be nice if the MMP review can get us PV or STV seats, no threshold (well, first divisor 1.4 I suppose) and maybe even a few less list MPs. But that's later.

    Two ticks entrenched? So the nats push through SM. Bah.

    Since Nov 2006 • 480 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I agree with you on the broadcasting policy- but respectfully disagree about the GST off fruit and veges. We are feeling the full force of the fast food advertising dollar. Any step in the right direction will help. Here's I/S view on NoRightTurn.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Kracklite,

    Correct. If a party does not represent me, then they do not earn, let alone own my vote.

    The “left” is not Labour’s bitch. The “right” is not National’s bitch. The center don’t have to take big party cock from either end – it can be as electorally slutty as it pleases.

    Not rocket science, people.

    Now, can we stick a fucking fork in FPP-style “born to rule” prickery because it’s not only done, it’s maggoty and beginning to reek.

    Have a good one tomorrow, folks. But if the outcome isn't to your liking, at least try to pay due respect to the free, fair and credible general election that's going to happen tomorrow. Especially if you don't like the outcome.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12031 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to steven crawford,

    Yeh- I voted Green in 1999. I haven't since as I thought they should have been promoting the core green message of how beneficial being genuine not token with our environmentalism could be. Rather than a little bit of marijuana,anti- chicken hormones, anti-American imperialism etc and hooshed together, though each may have its merits.

    Now they are trying to mainstream Green politics I can't bring myself to trust Russell Norman. There was something saint-like about Donald and Fitzsimmons. I'm not yet convinced by the current crop there.

    Appearing on this thread is also the slight hint of tactical voting for Winston. Considering this. It is not a nice thought, but which other party can concievably have a real shot at preventing asset sales?

    Also 4 % of the non-Nat vote would be a lot to waste. I think the opposition will be stronger with Winston in it. There are some National cabinet ministers who really need an introduction to some firebrand opposition politics. The man can answer a question, even if he doesn't have an answer written out for him by Steve Joyce. but not sure that I'll be able to vote for him on the day.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • martinb,

    I think Labour, being a broad organisation has some people that don't realise they have to earn every vote, and a lot of sincere capable hard working people who do.

    I think also that a Norman/Turei Greens party is a much easier sell to be a partner in government for the right of the Labour party than Tanzcos/Locke/Bradford etc.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to David Hood,

    Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway - toss a coin for which..

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4463 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    +1 - and thanks Craig-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway – toss a coin for which..

    You gave me a fright. You mean it's ahead if the referendum is for change. Which at the moment seems unlikely. Keep MMP 54.4%. Change 35%, 10% Undecided.

    It made more sense after I read David's comment earlier of course.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2143 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Oh god, I CAN"T DECIDE between Greens and Labour for my party vote. I just can't. If I want to see someone on the Labour List get into parliament (I think he's 33 or something), I have to vote Labour, don't I? Don't I?

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Given how many seem to be interested in voting Green, the Campbell Live story introducing their list members might be helpful. Embedded clip not loading properly for me right now so I can't tell you how long it is.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16741 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Someone might be able to clarify the latest numbers, but a whole lot more people than you will have to vote Labour before some talented members of their lower list get a look in.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16741 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National

    you are aware we're no longer using FPP, right.
    more than two options.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16741 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to martinb,

    which other party can concievably have a real shot at preventing asset sales?

    Te Greens, in short.

    I haven't paid enough attention to the Maori Party's pronouncements but it sounds like they may support sales in exchange for some iwi preference.

    And from his track record I wouldnt trust Winnie as far as I could spit. Despite what seems like a strong core belief against sales who's to say he wouldn't be bought off with foreign restrictions and an offer of being Treasurer with limo and other ego-stroking baubles?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16741 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to tussock,

    Edit: Oh, and Green, the local Sue Coutts so she gets the refund (very safe National seat), Keep MMP, and STV.

    Thank you Tussock. I wonder how much of an extra sympathy vote Sue gets because of that shafting QLDC gave to Wanaka Wastebusters.

    Even more votes I suspect because she has been an energetic and appealing candidate. Hope it translates to party votes.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    I have to vote Labour, don’t I? Don’t I?

    I think you can do it with pride after the policy in that campaign. Much as I would like to see James Shaw, David Hay and Rick Leckinger become MPs, I don't think it matters too much ultimately how the votes and seats on the left are arranged. So just vote for who you want to - you don't even have to tell.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Not at all, if you want your vote to be a protest vote against National not Labour. I would vote for a stinking pile of poo if it would get rid of National, they are Cuthullull's little helpers.

    Voting for a "minor" party is not a protest vote period. My interactions with Labour people in general election mode has always given me the impression that most (not all) Labourites regard MMP as an aberration that will eventually go away, and they only go along with it as much as they must until FPP is restored. Which is why the Greens may well within a term or two be the second-largest party in Parliament.

    And why do I have to be left to be Green anyway?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Isaac Freeman, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National and these people are dangerous.

    This is the part I think is a mistake. There's no box on the ballot paper for "against Labour". Neither are there sections for "Left and "Right". Each party has its own values, policies and culture.

    I voted for the Greens because their values, policies and culture better matched what I want from New Zealand than any other party. I'd like them to do whatever works to advance their values, policies and culture. Despite the history, I think they'd get further working with Labour than National, but if that's not an option I'd rather they work with National to get something small achieved than sit on their hands for three years.

    As far as I can tell, Maori Party voters feel the same way, as do New Zealand First voters, United voters and Conservative voters. Back in the days when ACT had discernible values and policies, I'm sure they were the same. I don't know enough about Mana yet, but if they're serious about getting things done they'll also work with whoever can advance their causes in whatever political environment they find themselves in.

    Thankfully, Labour is capable of recognising this reality in practice. I find Winston Peters' politics odious, but I'm glad Helen Clark was able to form a government with NZ First, because I preferred that outcome to having Don Brash as Prime Minister.

    Christchurch • Since Feb 2007 • 133 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Isaac Freeman,

    +1 Well put Isaac Freeman.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Isaac Freeman, in reply to martinb,

    I think Labour, being a broad organisation has some people that don’t realise they have to earn every vote, and a lot of sincere capable hard working people who do.

    Yes, quite right. There are some great, sensible and sincere people in the Labour Party. I'm heartened when their voices are heard.

    Christchurch • Since Feb 2007 • 133 posts Report Reply

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