OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Dear Labour Caucus

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  • rjal, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Oops, sorry Russell. I hadn't intended that to be interpreted as being directed at anyone in particular. I just thought a semi-humorous tale of my big comprehension fail might take a little heat out of the discussion at hand, that and I wanted to acknowledge that I found Steve's comment really helpful -- a point I'd neglected in my first comment.

    I understand your position, and if I was you I would be feeling aggrieved too. Feeling aggrieved about a situation that has played out badly, especially one that you think you could have handled better, can rankle for a long time.

    I'll bow out of this thread for now, although, I might post something on topic in a couple days if it's still going.

    I think you do a fantastic job here, and I think you've created something here that's pretty special. Enjoy tonight.

    Since Dec 2011 • 6 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Funnily enough I've just watched Inside NZ, Inside Child Poverty on TV on Demand. It hit me hard.

    Shearer is placing a lot of emphasis on the issue of poverty.

    And in advocating clean, green and clever jobs he is distancing himself from Shane Jones' pro-mining stance!

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Shane Jones.... What was that 'fresh' front bench again? :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1599 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Since we're posting addresses in reply... Russel Norman's excellent speech, invoking (of all things) Jesus, at length.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2137 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to George Darroch,

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1112/S00167/russel-normans-address-in-reply-speech.htm

    Your link went to the Jakarta Times or something so I've included the above. A great speech, a better speech. Long. Got a bit dazed in the economic section. Can we listen to these speeches on line?

    Interesting that he linked to Michael Joseph Savage - it's almost as if he is the default leader of the opposition. I don't know how the political media works but if I wanted to get an opposition sound bite on an issue I think I'd go to Norman not Shearer. Hmmmm.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The Bash Street kids return...

    addresses in reply

    How do we disabuse John Key and co of the notion that Parliament is a forum for really bad stand up comedians - I caught a small portion of Key's response to Shearer's speech, it was a tirade about the Labour party's internal workings, a very sad indication of his level of debate - he seems to think he has a mandate to blither on pointlessly rather than to prove why he should be our nation's leader.
    And they wonder why we have a bullying problem in New Zealand!
    Oh yes, it will be a long, long, long three years...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5169 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    If Shearer can sit on Mallard and other interjectors hard enough to get Labour to maintain a dignified silence in the face of such juvenile ad homs (hard call, I know) they’ll both show Key up, and improve parliamentary behaviour astronomically.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to JLM,

    If Shearer can sit on Mallard and other interjectors hard enough to get Labour to maintain a dignified silence in the face of such juvenile ad homs...

    Let's all write them and ask them to...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5169 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    How is Shearer’s vision for NZ ‘left’?
    We have growing and shameful inequality in NZ. I don’t think there’s any way to halt it that doesn’t involve turning away from ‘the markets’ for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    Rob, I read this speech as identifying an urgent need to reduce poverty, retain assets and create meaningful work amongst a number of other things. I'm not sure what you particularly mean by "left", however those few goals are, IMO, vastly different from what National aims too do and entirely consistent with Labour's values.

    I'm not at all averse to more "sharing it around", I do however want to see policies that will grow the economy also and I agree with Shearer that increasing tourism and intensifying dairying are not the answer.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2239 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to JLM,

    maintain a dignified silence

    and the Greens showed last term that good behaviour in the House is not punished by voters.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to rjal,

    Thanks. Glad you're sticking around as a commenter -- that's one good thing to come out of this trainwreck.

    Apologies to everyone, Gio included, for the way it has all played out.

    The thread seems to have regained a purpose, so I won't close it.

    And yeah, I really enjoyed last night. We recorded a fun Media7 show, and then seeing @peace play blew away any residual dumb resentment in me. It was just brilliant.

    I would, however, like to talk to someone about this here headache I've got.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19116 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    “User pays” would be worth review, if reducing poverty is the plan. Paying for drivers license applications for example, is for the minimum wage earner, the equivalent of half a days toil. Mabe more of the operational costs of New Zealand, could be deducted from tax. IE: paying for more Government addmistraion costs from the tax take. That would help people, particularly low income earners to feel valued by the community. which in turn will lead to more productive behavior. And ultimately, “the growing of the economy”.

    Assuming we think that the economy needs to grow, as opposed to diversify. And that the definition of poverty in New Zealand is malnutrition, not mental illness due to more complex problems associated with living within a highly competitive society.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2807 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    How do we disabuse John Key and co of the notion that Parliament is a forum for really bad stand up comedians –

    +1
    Personally I cringed. When all others had shown dignity and decorum johnkey came across like a 12 year old, making fun of others to improve his own standing. Couple that with a sneer that just makes you want to punch him and you have one big fail.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4947 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to steven crawford,

    “User pays” would be worth review,

    Indeed, in fact it is more like "user pays twice" we pay for the people that work out how much to charge for the service we pay taxes for.
    It has led to the ridiculous situation of the police having to account for the costs of everyday policing, the cost of rescues and crowd control, the cost of the jobs they get paid for. If that guy hadn't have gone missing in the bush would they really have laid off 100 police officers?. The cost remains the same, plus, of course, the cost of the accountants.
    Bah Humbug.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4947 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I caught a small portion of Key’s response to Shearer’s speech, it was a tirade about the Labour party’s internal workings, a very sad indication of his level of debate – he seems to think he has a mandate to blither on pointlessly rather than to prove why he should be our nation’s leader.

    "And I say to myself, it's not hard to see why they chose someone who's spent half his life in war-torn places like Somalia and Bosnia, because that's what the Labour Party's like now."

    Don't give up your day job, Johnny Boy. Don't you realise that there's no taxation or red tape in Somalia?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4431 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    When all others had shown dignity and decorum johnkey came across like a 12 year old, making fun of others to improve his own standing.

    This is something that's rankled a *lot* recently - JK's habit of smarmy offhand rebuffs. I spat when I heard his comment about putting Shearer on the poverty committee provided Labour offer confidence and supply. I read that as nothing more than a hearty middle finger (and I'm really happy Shearer addressed the obvious partisanship in his speech).

    Given the comments here about it, I'm not going to bother reading Key's response, but given how tired he's been looking ever since the teapot tapes (granted I've no doubt that was partly to do with the media cherry-picking the photos), I wonder if his increasing churlishness is indication of rising stress levels?

    ...well, good. Probably it's just as churlish of me, but what I want for National and John Key with all the grand plans I despise - asset sales, beneficiary bashing, national standards, welfare privatisation, name it - is for their jobs this term to be an utter fucking nightmare.

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Norman did sound good. A very clear contrast to National.

    an urgent need to reduce poverty, retain assets and create meaningful work

    Maybe- but how? Shearer's answer isn't so impressive. Something borrowed: 'smart, green' and something blue: 'growing the pie' with innovative new businesses.
    I agree with a point Ben Wilson keeps making (and Russel Norman, in a different way)- we are foolish to base all our economic and social plans on the NZ economy 'growing' most years, and ever on, til the end of time.
    Globalisation will keep on tending to push NZ wages down- and hopefully, third-world wages up. NZ is plenty 'smart'- but it's nuts (and a little offensive) to assume there aren't also plenty of smart folks in India, China, Ghana and Bolivia.
    And just about our whole economy and way of life is based on cheap (dirty) energy and free (endless) water. Resources are finite.
    The world has the ability to sustain 7 billion people, and more. But not the way we're doing it now.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1599 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    is for their jobs this term to be an utter fucking nightmare.

    +1.
    But one we get to wake up from, please :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1599 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis,

    Good on the Greens for their slightly more dignified approach to Parliment, although I do wonder if it will be maintained now they have extra numbers, hope so

    Regarding the Prime Minister, I think it depends on your shade of glasses on how his comments are regarded, I certainly do not remember an upset when Labours Cullen said
    "We won, they lost, let’s do lunch”.
    Which at the time was true but quite shocking

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 548 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis,

    Russell, a big thanks for this site and your pleasant moderation of it
    Like others here I have over-stepped good manners on occassion while in debate so I really appreciate what you do and some of the pressures on you while you do do it

    I hope you take time to rest or refuel this summer and of course if you travel South feel free to impose yourself on me

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 548 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    If you haven’t seen it, I urge you to try sit through it because I actually gave up 10 minutes in. It was embarrassing. There was nothing but spiteful behaviour worthy only of a school yard bully. And he got on a roll. Egged on by his idiot caucus, he proceeded to denigrate Labour by comparing them to starving war torn Bosnians and Somalians. How utterly repugnant.
    3 short sentences from Cullen was nothing compared to Key.The idiot is an embarrassment.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6358 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    "And I say to myself, it's not hard to see why they chose someone who's spent half his life in war-torn places like Somalia and Bosnia, because that's what the Labour Party's like now."
    Classy.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to merc,

    To me it comes across as moronic and try-hard rather than offensive, in a "there's a bomb in my luggage" kind of way.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4431 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to rjal,

    and I wanted to acknowledge that I found Steve's comment really helpful -- a point I'd neglected in my first comment.

    Thanks, and welcome to commentating on PAS.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    I rarely agree with Raymond, so I’ll take the opportunity to say I agree with this:

    Russell, a big thanks for this site and your pleasant moderation of it
    Like others here I have over-stepped good manners on occassion while in debate so I really appreciate what you do and some of the pressures on you while you do do it

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1156 posts Report Reply

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