OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Association of Community Retailers. Again.

139 Responses

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  • nzlemming, in reply to mccx,

    What's stunning about that is that they feel they have to ask.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2106 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 796 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    It's a funding war.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    "If I have to reposition my stock in drawers under the counter it will mean major expense and disruption, as this area is presently used for other purposes."

    Or you could ... like ... stop selling tobacco

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3392 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    It is where he keeps his illegal drugs and xxx-rated DVDs?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2311 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    The dairy here up North has stopped selling cigarettes. People now travel 10 km to get their tobacco and because of that they also get bread and milk and veges and the newspaper and any number of items once bought at the dairy. Business has dropped quite a lot and perhaps because it's a coop and some were against the stoppage , I now see one can purchase Tobacco plants which must be selling well as they sell lots of papers up there and never stopped selling the trusty zig zags. I now understand why ;)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6204 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Phil was making a claim

    At the risk of being boring, I responded yesterday: my original comment that was a brief aside which Graeme chose to interpret it in a way I had not intended. I replied saying my meaning was that science had been informing the debate over many years. The voting on last year's Bill builds on that body of knowledge.

    My contention is that most MPs don't even know the effect of the laws they are passing

    I am more hopeful. The contention would make a fascinating project for a Masters/PhD student (VUW PolSci dept, are you listening?) I agree that the political process is complex.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth, in reply to mccx,

    Of related interest, the New York Times's Public Editor

    I read Jay Rosen @jayrosen, who teaches journalism at New York University. He responds here to the piece by the NYT's Brisbane, and includes reaction by others and by Brisbane himself.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    Congratulations Keith, they're talking about you - which is better than the alternative.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Yeah the point is, it's a clear cost benefit analysis for the dairy. Either it is worthwhile to put the tobacco under the counter because it increases sales of bread milk etc OR it isn't worthwhile.

    Bitching and moaning that this legislation that is, by every measure, going to save the country money, might shave his profit is just a high pitched whine.

    He is pretending he has no options and that is patently not true.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3392 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    prohibition is not on anybody’s agenda

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10369512

    Rich, look at the context, that is from Feb 2006, at the very start of Hone Harawira's political career and immediately after the 2005 election. I stand to be corrected but I don't such a bill ever being submitted in the ballot. Certainly it wasn't captured by I/S's excellent 'In The Ballot' resource.

    I compare that with the Nov 2010 report of the Maori Affairs Select Committee in their inquiry into tobacco which says (unanimously, bottom of page 10):

    [W]e do not believe that the majority of New Zealanders support prohibition as the mechanism for reaching this goal, and so we have
    not recommended it to the Government at this time.

    Harawira was a major player for pushing for the inquiry, working on it and bringing it to a conclusion. Yes, Turia, Lees-Galloway and others too.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Attachment

    .He is pretending he has no options and that is patently not true.

    Oh yes I agree. I was just pointing out a dairy that has already stopped selling tobacco a year (at least) ago and the consequence for them. I found it a bit ironic that they now sell the plants though. Also I have mentioned this to others at the pub and I know several were going down to get a plant.
    Still, I noticed the other day that advertising propaganda appears to have been live and well back in the day as this magazine page indicates

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6204 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Attachment

    You've seen this one, right?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Also I have mentioned this to others at the pub and I know several were going down to get a plant.

    They're very easy to grow in NZ, the conditions are well suited and they require nearly no maintenance, because they're naturally toxic to pests. Preparation pretty much hanging the leaves up to dry out, then cutting them up for use. Hard to imagine a legal crop that could save a smoker as much money, for so little effort, so it's curious that it's never caught on. Another win for big tobacco there. Illegal to sell to people, yet another win for big foreign tobacco - we can only smoke it if it is made in a disgusting sweatshop somewhere in the third world, by law.

    Not that I would suggest anyone who isn't already an addict have anything to do with the nasty stuff, nor that we would want a burgeoning local tobacco industry. Just that it's amazing how alienated tobacco consumers are from something they could make for themselves with far more ease than homemade alcohol, and most kinds of edible crops.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8523 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    We grew tobacco for supply in Motueka for many years.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I know several were going down to get a plant

    Yeah I have an aunt-in-law who grows her own tobacco. There are limits to how much you are allowed to grow but otherwise seems a reasonable option.

    If you accept there will be addicts or simply people who make that choice then letting them grow their own seems remarkably sensible. And yes that statement could be quite general :).

    The big tobacco companies are a much worse evil than home growers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3392 posts Report Reply

  • Tuo Lei, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    That's all very well, but how does a home grower add all of those things that make cigarettes just so more-ish and delicious.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes

    jiducheng • Since Dec 2011 • 4 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Tuo Lei,

    LOL, true.I think I can make my own basil and urea, but I'm all out of 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8523 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Tuo Lei,

    I picked tobacco for 2 seasons at Motueka. As a treat, we were given a tour of the Wills' cigarette factory - free samples!
    That's why I've NEVER smoked cigarettes
    (I was already a pipe & cigar smoker - and all the stuff that went into cigarette tobacco plus the casual way it was handled & kilned & processed - determined me to stay on the burley leaf...)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Carrick Graham.
    Hmm, two first name syndrome, the likes of Colin Craig, Garth George and Steven Joyce, to name but three nom de deux if you will.
    I could go on about there being "No smoke without Führer" but I won't.
    Keep up the good work Keith we will get the bastards yet.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4861 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to BenWilson,

    Illegal to sell to people, yet another win for big foreign tobacco – we can only smoke it if it is made in a disgusting sweatshop somewhere in the third world, by law.

    Talking to a well informed friend the other day, he told me that if you dry your tobbacco and offer it through an honesty box system at a roadside farm gate stall, you are not breaking any law, apparently. I am yet to be convinced.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4861 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    And why is there such a glaring inconsistency between legalised booze and tobacco which cause thousands of deaths each year, and prohibited cannabis which has caused few if any direct deaths? I suspect it's more than just fancy marketing and spin.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4304 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    Actually, all you need as far as I can tell is a licensed Customs Controlled Area which costs $690 a year. I believe all wineries and breweries have to be one as well, so it can't be that hard.

    I suspect that the real problem is that people who smoke aren't discerning consumers and wouldn't pay a premium for local product.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Or it might be that every bit of home-grown tobacco I have ever smoked has been foul. Maybe if somebody could produce a quality product that might be different.

    Since Jun 2010 • 307 posts Report Reply

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