Perhaps Lockwood Smith should reflect on the fact that note-taker's are the cheap option. You'd probably need six NZSL interpreters to provide actual sign language support for Mojo during a single house session, and Wellington probably does not have the capacity to provide that many – requiring?

I totally agree. Well written as always. I little worrying however is the fact that you mention Leighton Smith. I can't imagine that you would listen to him as he would rot the brain of any semi intelligent human being. I presume therefore that his comments were reported?

What really got me annoyed was the idea that you would put wheelchair ramps in to enable access to the building, but not enable access to the debate. I know for a fact that closed captioning parliamentary tv has been raised a number of times with the?

How about seeing the "problem" in a different way? The Te Reo translation service is funded by Parliamentary Service because it is a service "for all MPs".

Isn't having Mathers fully participate in the House also a service to all MPs?

I don't think Lockwood has?

Sometimes it can work, if approached positively and with an understanding of where the right places/people to start with. Going at it like a bull at a gate is almost always a recipe for failure.

Willingness to pay for it seems the biggest problem. As it often is – brings the matter of disabled people's value into sharp focus, though you can guarantee most of those conversations have?

Danyl's observation that journalists like to use the word "Mojo" in headlines was pretty good. This has meant a framing advantage to Mojo and the Greens' perspective,?

I used to work making closed captions for the telly. Live?

If Parliament can't set the standard for open access, what's the darn point?

Mojo's election to parliament filled me with pride, for her, and the rest of us.

Speaking of: if you like parliamentary diversity that reflects the rest of us, don't forget to tell?

and like most things, disabled people have the least resources to do that with.

Are the live-captioned broadcasts you?re talking about really live, like UN-speech-earpiece live?

How difficult would it be to produce a slightly-delayed?

Funny what a little bit for forward planning and grown-up non-fuckery can do, isn?t it?

Another?

Unsurprisingly, the Speaker reports that:
"One of our problems with the computer systems that we have... the latest computer systems aren't that compatible with the only available software to help with that transcription of what's going on in the?

Do you think there are another 99 people in NZ who'd do the same?

It's unfair, it's probably a breach of her rights, it's certainly neanderthal behaviour on the part of The Speaker and some in the media, it's easily solved and it probably would take some poor?

It does seem clear under the Parliamentary Services charter and act that they are to provide the werewithal for Representatives to do their jobs...
and while directives come from The Speaker, he in turn?

Nice cheap shot there (and not exactly a tough audience), but I think there's more than enough to justly ping The Speaker?

EDIT:
Stuff has more detail and video in the House

I do appreciate the reminder. NZSL and Te Reo are on my to learn upon repatriation list.

Approaching this from my language geek point of view, it strikes me as being yet another (petty, spiteful) example of NZ's gross undervaluing of communication?

This is not a partisan issue, it?s a parliamentary services issue ? it just so happens that the speaker is a Nat.

Bigger than that – it's a societal litmus test for Social Darwinism.

A couple of schools in Chch used to offer it as a night class (before, y'know, the community education cuts) and Canterbury Parents of Deaf Children are currently running?

I have to wonder if a deal of the 'she/the Greens knew about the deafness before she was elected thus it's up to her' is because she is?

If Mathers were to appear in court, she would be entitled to a funded interpreter. Actually, I'm pretty sure that if she were on a jury, she'd also be entitled to a funded interpreter. So, y'know,?

My son has lessons from The Robbie White Trust in Dunedin . The signer takes a lesson at school so that the whole class and teacher gets to learn it as well. If Parliamentary Services have any loot?

Winston Peters offered to help immediately yesterday and urged other Parties to assist, but this isn't really the issue here. Many would offer I'm?

With all due respect, this is an old white man issue. PS have just gone through a shared service consolidation which will have failed to deliver the "economies?

Indeed. Excellent instant point scoring by Peters, but really, the point is that a whip-around shouldn't be the way Parliament funds vital things like access to Parliamentary debate for an elected MP.

The mere side effect that hundreds of thousands of NZers could also?

I think we've had a few of those over the last 150 years, just not diagnosed, nor, of course, out about it.

I know of several, both diagnosed and out, who have ambitions in?

Frankly, I?m feeling pretty positive about this whole debacle. The point of parliament incorporating an ever-more-diverse group of people is to ensure that ever-more-diverse groups of people get better representation and services.

I?ve?

From a post I wrote yesterday, whoop which I?m not going to offer the obligatory apologies for self-linking, because it?s highly apposite. In any case, this is the most salient bit.

I am starting to see in Smith a resolute defender of the patriarchy. In?

Disability is not something individuals have. What individuals have are impairments. They may be physical, sensory, neurological, psychiatric, intellectual or other impairments.

Disability is the process which happens when one group of people create barriers by designing a world only?

Yup it was a cheap shot.

However it would be nice if the National Party actually spoke up about how outrageous this is. Their silence makes them an obvious target.

So say that then. Might also be useful to draw a non-trivial distinction between National and the fucking Speaker of the House because accusing any Speaker?

From the stranger than fiction department: I know Te Reo is an official language, but I think you'll find that English is not an official language. I heard that some time ago from a linguist discussing preservation and support for languages on?

So really, we're back to Lockwit, aren't we? Did he convene the PSC to discuss this matter? It appears not. Would they convene without him? I doubt it very much,?

Parliament TV is, I understand it, only on Freeview, or on the Internet. Both of these options allow you to choose the audio stream with simultaneous translation.

I know full well that The Speaker is neutral?

Not...going...there...

As far as I'm aware, the PSC's current membership is the Leaders of the House and Opposition. Whatever your views of the abilities of Messers Brownlee and Shearer, I believe they're entirely capable?

Yes. You might want to go back and re-read the ?cheap shot? I referred to and which you (kind of) sprang to the defense of. I?ll tick off Smith for being bullheaded, intransigent and infuriatingly obtuse.

Idiot Savant has convincingly (to my mind) fisked?

Members of the Parliamentary Service Commission, as at 30 June 2011 are:

Chair, Dr The Rt Hon Lockwood Smith, MP
Leader of the House, Hon Gerry Brownlee, MP
For the Leader of the Opposition, Hon Annette King, MP
For the National Party, Chris Tremain, MP
For the Act?

Probably what got him re-elected.

The nurses are lovely here.

Mark: This is me not going ballistic. Take a picture. You might, however, want to stick to direct quotes if you can?t paraphrase me more accurately. .

Shearer was new at his job and Gerry?

No. Smith is the responsible minister. He convenes the meeting. And he was the one in a position to recognise an issue. I don?t for a moment think that either Brownlee or Shearer would have refused to?

Good and fine. However, I?m not representing your views at all, let alone misrepresenting them.

And both could have made the time if it actually mattered?

Yeah, nah. Technically speaking, the Speaker is not a minister, as he is the head of Parliament, not of the executive arm of government. Huuuuuuge difference, constitutionally. Ministers of the Crown are appointed by the Prime Minister, the Speaker is elected by the House.?

Ever read Oliver Sacks' "Seeing Voices"? It is mainly about a New England community that had – maybe still has?- a high proportion of citizens who were/are profoundly deaf.?

I do not doubt you. But I did actually check the parliament.nz website before I typed that:

The Departmental Forecast Report sets out the financial statements?

I've seen two hearing-able people use sign?

Yes, I do get that Russell. One might also think when you're a member of body whose sole function is to advise you'd not only do so but be proactive about identifying issues that lie outside your able-bodied?

Absolutely. He's chair of the PSC, and so calls the meetings. Arguably, given Parliament's failure to appoint new members to the PSC, he's the only person who can call meetings (or maybe not – see schedule 2.1(2) of the Parliamentary?

Now that would be awesome!

One Paragraph after pointing out that individuals have impairments and not disabilities, is probably not the best time to point out that we've confirmed the rights?

The three news article headlined "Speaker staunch on deaf MP?s technology funding"? I saw the link somewhere else, and ignored it. An article whose headline is so misleading (the Speaker has said?

Funny how many people in Europe and Asia manage it as a matter of necessity. When at high school I was drop-dead impressed by an exchange student who was Italian, but her mother was Franco-German. Since neither set of grandparents spoke a word of Italian?

This is the first two paragraphs of the accompanying story, which is based on the script for the report:

New Zealand's first deaf MP, Mojo?

Nothing wrong with watching the pennies, but there's such a thing as "penny wise and pound foolish". Perhaps I'm too simple for Wellywood, but it seems a no-brainer that when you give someone a job (and a raft of statutory obligations)?

If English is not?

You appear to be under the impression that the Prime Minister could not ask the Governor-General to appoint someone else as the Minister responsible for Vote: Parliamentary Service. I am intrigued from where this impression arises.

Which is an entirely separate point from insinuating that the Speaker of the House acted out of partisan malice?

Which I saw after you linked to the video.

I note however, that the article quotes someone pointing out that the Government has promised that disabled people will be able top?

Language usage – of disabled person (meaning by society), people with disability?

Abiding respect for the Bill of Rights 1688?

:-)

Well, yes, but one key is getting them while they're young. My family has a rule – I speak only English (sprinkled with what little of Te Reo I can remember) to our daughter, my?

O goodness, +++++!

Appearances may be deceiving you. ;-)

What I said was ?Ministers are chosen by?

As the story indicates in the sentence you paraphrase ?.

The Government signed up to?

I also said Natslooked bad for saying nowt.

Facts straight!

No you didn?t, and apologies for the lack of clarity on my part. I didn?t think you quite understood what I was saying in the first instance, but didn't really help matters by not getting a firm grasp on?

I try to do it this way when transcribing audio-recordings of interviews and conferences; I can?

Surely Parliament still won't deny MPs the opportunity to "correct" the first draft. So where is?

I did read the story.

Mostly, this matter annoys me because almost all the coverage of it everywhere has been wrong. People who want to understand what has happened?

Physical copies, I think. I believe there is one fewer printed version of Hansard as a result of the changes.

Parliamentary email, apparently. So it may not matter.

http://www.gaynz.com/blogs/redqueen/?p=503

It's nice to see such charming optimism in an ER. Seriously, I admire the ability to avoid becoming a tired?

Um, yes, and I?d be inclined to put it in the beat-up/trivia basket if Mr. Mallard hadn?t been part of a Government that took a less laissez-faire view of the practice.

Also, someone needs to?

It was just the latest in a long line of media and social media?

Dear Trevor,
It's a type of trouser.

Seconded. Like I've said, the issue is far bigger than just Lockjaw Smith. The issue is a society that sees fit to park in disabled spaces?

it?s wrong.
Attitudes must change.

What Angela and Sacha said.

Lockwood Smith's pompous and undemocratic pronouncements would have attracted considerably more heat in Canada.

The idea that if someone with a disability wishes to participate in the life the rest of us can take for granted, they'd better find the?

Wow. Really, just? I?ve got nothing. I?m going to walk the fuck away from that for everyone?s sake, but in the context of bitching Smith for being tin-eared?

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1329307487/843/6426843.jpg

I would extend that to most people going about their daily toil. It is the nature of government and the society we have created since the mid 1980s.

My thoughts are the?

On a deeper reading of what you're saying here, I sense an unfair equivocation. It would be an unfortunate line of attack if Lockwood Smith were disabled, and I was mocking him on account of some aspect?

Oh, I don't know. I live on the 6th floor of a building that has no ramps or lifts. Nothing stops me getting up and down the stairs. I work in buildings that have ramps to their 1st/Ground?

And yesterday she did radio interviews in which she sat opposite the interviewer, lip read the?

Once again, some people really need to move their cars out of the disability spaces. Unless they want to be granted a disability permit on the?

Yep. And just how such a small step she and the Greens are asking us to make to meet her part way.

**No-one has suggested that Mathers must find the?

This kind of sums up the injustice. She is doing what she can to make the conversation possible, but there are some things that are impossible for her.

The Speaker?

I?

United Nations Convention on the?

To be fair, it can be worse than that.

The Cameron government's horrible decision to use people on disability benefits as a wedge issue wound up with this deeply alarming story earlier this month:

The?

Not quite, Ben. When my Father and foster-Mother died, I really?

Actually, I'd immediately think they might be autistic, rather than dishonest. Not everyone has your worldview, Craig.

Love that term! I loathe terms like "native language" and "native speaker" (though I do use them out of pragmatism) because 'native' implies 'birth' and no one (except, perhaps, Laozi, if you believe some of the wilder legends about him) is born speaking. All languages are learnt,?

That's really, really disappointing.

Good point.

My 2 midwife sisters would insist that, by the time the foetus (they wouldnt say that!*) developes a functioning brain, it is picking up louder sounds (including songs,
loud religious chants, as well as explosions et al?)

*pepe/baby/bub/little one?

It so is.

Not my worldview, acutally, and that was exactly my point. Islander won the chocolate fish, because that was something a very good friend of mine had to get a handle on very quickly?

Cuts both ways, really.?

And now the moderator has spoken!
I've just hidden a whole lot of posts.

If you don't like where this thread is going, feel free to throw your two cents in – that's why it's called a discussion board.

Posting that you're leaving the discussion adds?

Cheers. I'll give that the 25 seconds I think it's worth...

Done. Hmmm, no I'm?

Correct. The speaker is elected by parliament.

The means of that, however, is a difference between the UK and NZ systems.

The UK Speaker is elected by an exhaustive secret ballot and expected to command some cross-party support (being secret, the?

Actually, we have. Peter Tapsell was the last in the 1990's, and there have been a couple of others,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_New_Zealand_House_of_Representatives#Holders_of_the_office

I understand that Mojo and colleagues negotiated with PSC and the?

Excellent. Not so private if there are other NZSL users in the room, but. :)

OK, thanks. Just try and find a slightly less distasteful term than "emotionally retarded" for people whose affect display makes you feel all icky in your water, m'kay? At?

There are similar problems in workplaces, yes. Has anyone been drawing those links while I've been offline?

Yes, some of our colleagues need to be better with the basics. Impairments *are* the same as "disabilities".

Backwards Americanisms?

Quite. Though it wasn't the best answer, I have to salute Winston for coming out so promptly and practically in support. Has current government Disability Minister Tariana?

as long as they're not American. :)

quite

lycra can be a tad too revealing

One 'side' has worked constructively and in good faith for a couple of months and has reacted to?

This. I had a similar conversation today with a Treaty of Waitangi claim negotiator.

To be fair to Lockwood, he has said he's willing to fund NZSL interpreters – but notetaking in English is beyond the way?

Please do not lecture Ben about disability issues.

Some of the arguments?

Now I'm really confused. Both would seem to be no-brainers to me. But yes, there's that pressure to cut costs, apparently getting to?

Hear hear Russell. Thank you.

And, you see, that?s kind of the problem right there. That (entirely understandable) assumption that ?my own assumptions about interpreting behaviour are correct, because they?ve always worked for me so far? ? which doesn?t?

Kracklite: You know he?s not really real, and yet he tries so hard to show that he is

*sigh* I stand corrected.

So unfair..

(note: no source for pic, not mine, no rights asserted)

Did anyone get the Dark City reference? :)

@Craig, I didn't use the term.

@Russell, yes, my apologies for any part in lowering the tone.