Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Safety Net

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  • Emma Hart, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    I was surprised to hear that Germaine regularly has the experience (such as in shops or queues) of feeling invisible and being ignored

    Which does not appear to have given Greer the ability to recognise her own privilege, nor does it seem to get in the way of her being silencing, erasing and abusive herself.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Tom Beard,

    Did you see the Germaine Greer glitterbombing? I have very mixed feelings about that.

    Mph, yeah, me too. Especially after I saw the photos. Obviously I have issues with Greer, too, but this? Just didn't seem right.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    If this happens to these women what hope is there for the rest of us to have our voices heard?

    I'd be a little more sympathetic if they weren't quite so keen to dish out the same treatment to trans-women and sex-workers. Who, with all due respect, are a damn sight more marginalized and hand-waved out of discourse than they'll ever be.

    Did you see the Germaine Greer glitterbombing? I have very mixed feelings about that.

    So do I - I'd rather Greer got a little less adoration and glitter and a lot more close "WTF, really?" editing of her increasingly cranky and incoherent screeds. Has any of the media coverage of Greer's visit here even raised her long history of outing and belittling trans-women?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    BTW, Sandra Coney still has an open invitation to discuss her role in the Odd Future/BDO canning. Thanks for being open, accountable and engaging with the community Councillor.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Emma Hart,

    There was an accusation from the audience of transphobia. Don't know the details of the case but something about an academic appointment. Germaine denied it and said the reporting in the media was wrong. Sandra was also criticised for not supporting prostitution (but who ever said feminism was easy?).

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2122 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    There was an accusation from the audience of transphobia. Don't know the details of the case but something about an academic appointment.

    So, in 1996 Greer didn't oppose the election of trans physicist Rachael Padman as a fellow of Newnham College?

    Padman herself has a slightly different recollection.

    And to be honest, Hilary, I don't even want to cut and paste from the chapter on 'Pantomime Dames' in The Whole Woman. It's ugly stuff and a disturbing proportion of it sounds like some meta-parody of Garth George.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Germaine Greer:

    Nowadays we are all likely to meet people who think they are women, have women's names, and feminine clothes and lots of eyeshadow, who seem to us to be some kind of ghastly parody, though it isn't polite to say so. We pretend that all the people passing for female really are. Other delusions may be challenged, but not a man's delusion that he is female.

    Ghastly. Parody. Delusional.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Emma Hart,

    DELETED - Just realized the quote from Greer may be extremely triggering not only to trans-gendered readers but rape survivors. Apologies for being thoughtless.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    The session was completely full. Next to me was a young man in his 20s. There was a lot of good humour and talk of the importance of nurturing the ecosystem. The title was ‘Where were you in 1972?’ Germaine is 73. Marilyn, at 60 this year, was the youngest.

    Germaine talked about a young woman surgeon she had met at a book signing. She had done all the things the second wavers had fought for. But she had walked away from that career as the the environment in the operating surgery and the comments and sexism of the male clinicians were as abusive as any other workplace where women are powerless.

    Sandra talked about values being more important than gender in her current job, where some of her closest allies are men and where women can be part of the problem.

    There was a lot of talk about dignity. I hope it will be broadcast on Radio NZ later this year as there was a lot of fascinating stuff.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2122 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Germaine talked about a young woman surgeon she had met at a book signing. She had done all the things the second wavers had fought for. But she had walked away from that career as the the environment in the operating surgery and the comments and sexism of the male clinicians were as abusive as any other workplace where women are powerless.

    Yeah. This is why I am loving A Thousand Reasons.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    BTW, Sandra Coney still has an open invitation to discuss her role in the Odd Future/BDO canning. Thanks for being open, accountable and engaging with the community Councillor.

    Speaking of, did you ever get anything useful from the OIA requests? (I definitely didn't, just a collection of waffle about the Council making no decisions, everything done by the BDO organisers etc.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1378 posts Report Reply

  • JoJo, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    God, Megan, that's so depressing. I have to stop reading before I get too stabby, but will keep the link to forward on to people who need it. Sigh.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Speaking of, did you ever get anything useful from the OIA requests?

    "Useful", no - not in the sense of 'material strong enough to justify doing the Ubangi stomp on the Council's arse, Public Address style". (Am I getting temperate and responsible in my old age?) Interesting reading though. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to JoJo,

    It's depressing, yes. But I take heart in the fact that people are talking about it, and outraged by it.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    “Shut the fuck up, and genuinely listen rather than waiting for your turn to speak. You really really need to internalize some complicated stuff. I know it’s outside your comfort zone, but deal. Then choose your next words with care and empathy.”

    Could I crowdsource a snappy acronym for all that? :)

    FULICE - Fuck Up, Listen, Internalize, Choose Empathy.

    Pronounciation key: either a Geordie 'phallus' /ˈfʌləs/, or foolisH /ˈfulɪs/ without the goalposts+crossbar.

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris,

    This is a bit TL:DR

    Too Short: Didn't Understand.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris,

    It doesn’t cease to matter just because you can’t punch people in the face over the internet. (You can’t. Seriously, you can’t.)

    I disagree. The pugilism simply becomes psychological. (assuming you are a regular member of the virtual community)

    For those who flit in and out of online forums, their impact has relatively little psychological traction both in terms of their own state of mind, and on the established culture of the forum imo.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

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