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Capture: Howling at the Moon

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  • Alex Efimoff, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But he did copy

    Did he???

    Wellington • Since Dec 2011 • 56 posts Report Reply

  • bmk, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But he did copy other people's creative works and enrich himself from them.

    Wasn't it more a case that he provided the means for other people to copy other people's creative work? Or did he actually do some of the copying himself?

    Since Jun 2010 • 323 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Alex Efimoff,

    But he did copy

    Did he???

    I guess you could argue that he merely provided a facility for other people to copy works to (although he certainly will have copied the files internally). But he also made millions of dollars from selling advertising around that infringing content, and actively incentivised uploaders whose infringing files were downloaded most often.

    The case, if it ever gets to court, will partly hinge on his lawyers’ ability to argue that he he knew nothing – nothing! – of this sweeping breach of copyright, and never downloaded such a file himself. I don’t think anyone really believes that.

    I’m appalled by the nature of the raid and by the way our police were suborned, and I like Dotcom as a figure. I think owners sometimes brought it on themselves. But to feel sympathy for him is just to acknowledge that the boundaries of copyright in the internet age are fuzzy.

    None of the above, of course, means I don’t think it’s shabby that other people used yours and Jackson’s work without attribution and/or permission. But if we think that copyright is something that only applies to our stuff, we’re not really having the debate.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Edit: Phew I'm not going mad.

    That's just weird. Welcome to the Internet ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2189 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Alex Efimoff,

    But he did copy
    Did he???

    As far as I know Kim Dotcom facilitated the storing and sharing of files. Despite what some deluded National Mps seem to think, Shanks, Lee*, file sharing is not illegal. In fact sharing is good (unless it's a disease I suppose) it is something that is obviously foreign to members of the Right.
    What people wish to store in Del Boy's virtual lockup is entirely up to them, who they wish to share their keys with is also up to them. The possibility that some may wish to store their music collection in the same lockup, or even their entire entertainment library, is not, or should not, be Del Boy's problem.
    * Melissa Lee actually starts out praising file sharing as an outlet for starving Artists but then goes on to tell us that "The Industry" needs protecting so fuck the artists.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    who they wish to share their keys with is also up to them.

    In a legal sense, it really isn't. They're distributing works without the permission of the authors, and in some cases making money from doing so.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Petra Jane,

    By using a CC-BY image without attributing it to Alex, those organisations aren't covered by the license.

    Um, no, they are covered by it - they're just in breach of it. Tiny legal quibble but it makes the difference. Theoretically*, Alex could sue them for breach of copyright, as they had not observed the terms of the permissive CC licence, purely because they are then subject to the full weight of copyright that Alex still holds in the image.

    CC does not replace copyright, and a lot of people(especially journalists) make this error. It depends on copyright and on an individual who holds that right allowing work to be used in certain ways without being bothered by requests for use, except when it's going to be to that person's benefit (like paying for usage - which is why I tend to use BY-SA-NC, so that I don't miss any opportunities.

    The alternative to holding the copyright (which is the default pretty much globally) is to explicitly place the item in the Public Domain, long before the expiration of the copyright term would place it in there anyway. I capitalized that to emphasis that that PD is a legal state that is independent of Creative Commons, though a number of people still seem confused about that as well.

    * I say theoretically because a cost/benefit analysis would probably indicate it's not worth it in this instance.

    EDIT: Okay, I take your point about the breach ending the access to the licence, but I read it that they weren't covered anyway. My bad, but the rest of it stands.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2189 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Russell Brown,

    They’re distributing works without the permission of the authors, and in some cases making money

    Disgusting, why can't people stick to an honest way of making money like foreign exchange or running a finance company?.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Just out of interest, who here has urged a Lessig-liberal approach to non-commercial copyright infringement (around, say, TV shows) and/or said something nice about Kim Dotcom?

    Hmm, I tend to share Lessig's approach to most of this but I can see the problem that bottom-feeders would use it as an excuse to package it up and make money off it (though they're doing it anyway so what's the diff?).

    Re Dotcom, I don't like the man himself, but I don't think the US has a leg to stand on in persecuting him and his company under the 'evidence' they've given and the screw-ups they've made. Sadly, for him, it will be a cold day in hell before he gets any back of what has been seized, and it saddens me that the NZ Govt has been a party to that, in the way they've gone about it.

    My personal thoughts on MegaUpload is that they probably crossed the line from safe harbour to transgressor under US law, in that they don't appear to have taken all possible steps to remove offending material as the DMCA requires, but they weren't a US company and most of the principals aren't US citizens (none, I think, but I may be wrong on that) so I think there was really no case for the USG to take.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2189 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Russell Brown,

    ...to acknowledge that the boundaries of copyright in the internet age are fuzzy.

    Dotcom is testing those boundaries, pushing new horizons - a virtual Enable Tasman...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5092 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I'll put an end to this damned piracy let me tell you that for nothing, put yer wallet away I said for nuffing dinneye?

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Attachment

    Innit!!!!

    Enable Tasman…

    Fnahhh

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Well that's one way to do it...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2189 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    I'm gonna tell on you an I'll tell your Mum and yer Dad if we can find 'em . . .

    I'll get yer! An if I don't get yer me mate'll get yer! An if me mate don't get yer yer not worth gettin!

    There was a claimed unacknowledged appropriation of someone's work in the Auckland film industry in the mid-80s that was resolved by pouring concrete into the alleged offender's toilet. Their failure to take legal redress was seen as an admission of guilt. A simple solution from a simpler time.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3595 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    A simple solution from a simpler time.

    There is no simpler time than the present, time travel is so damned inconvenient.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Not so much howling at the moon, just barking mad…
    Seems a culture of violence is being bred at Winz these days.

    A Winz manager was sacked after she got into a bar fight with a client and accessed confidential records to allegedly threaten her over the phone.

    Are they following in the footsteps of
    The Paulanator

    Eunice Matanibukaca said the girls were swearing and yelling and “fighting, punching each other” when Ms Bennett waded in.

    “I saw Paula coming. I could just see in her face that she wanted to get to them. She just looked so angry,

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Attachment

    Grrrr

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4941 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    interesting piece from Techdirt on AFP appropriated images via twitpic...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5092 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    aargh, my eyes

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Ah, that originated here.

    That's entirely ridiculous. It does seem to be a David and Goliath struggle though. Anyone says 'lawyer up', most amateur or semi-professionals would say 'have it, and take my house and car while you're at it'.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2156 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    This was on Stuff/Press today:

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5092 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Wowee!!

    Reminds me of my first time camping at Lake Ohau, it was cloudy when we went to bed; when I got up to answer a call of nature in the night, I stumbled blearily out of the tent, and then stumbled again, because of how the sky was packed with the most brilliant stars I'd ever seen.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3470 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    This was on Stuff/Press today:

    Amazing.

    Since you revived the thread, I’ll take the opportunity to spruik Media 7 tonight at 9.05pm on TVNZ 7.

    We solve all of the copyright problems and save the world.

    One thing that was abundantly clear from the other side of the lens is that come June, unless someone does something sensible, New Zealand is losing one of the best current affairs crews operating anyway.

    And they didn’t even have to pay me to say that.

    Cheers Russell, Sarah, Sacha and everyone else. Like flying first class.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2156 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to JacksonP,

    Media 7 tonight at 9.05pm on TVNZ 7.

    Yee haa! I hope they got your best angles, Jack. ;-)

    Media 7 is a great show.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3470 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Lilith __,

    Yee haa! I hope they got your best angles, Jack. ;-)

    Cheers Lilith. I'm getting more nervous about watching it than I was recording it.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2156 posts Report Reply

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